COMMENTS: 203
What It's Like To Be an Atheist in the Bible Belt
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At the Lake Hypatia Advance, a social gathering hosted by the Alabama Freethought Association, a frequent metaphor was "coming out" as an atheist. "I am out to my parents." "A few people are still in the closet." "We had several people in our community come out to us." One man said he came out to his parents twice, first as a non-Christian, years later as an atheist. ("Not in my house!" his mother said.) One woman told of an argument with her evangelical family in which "I outed my dad."
In much of the American South and Midwest church membership and religious faith are assumed. (In my hometown of San Francisco, as in Manhattan, faith is more apt to evoke surprise.) People have often never met an admitted atheist. "Literally people think that we do have horns, or that we're mean, or that we do not have kids," said a Kansan. Even in a city like Atlanta, some people feel religious pressure. Ed Buckner, president of American Atheists, said the Atlanta Freethought Association has members who "never saw any need [to gather with others] until they came to Atlanta – and people behind you in line in the grocery store say 'Do you know Jesus?' And your boss asks what church you attend."
(Because of such pressure, some people at Lake Hypatia asked that I not use their names or identifying information.)
The Alabama Freethought Association (AFA) is a chapter of the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF). Pat Cleveland, AFA's director, described her erstwhile fear of atheists. Cleveland grew up in a devout home where a Bible was the only book. But "my husband Roger was a freethinker. I would cringe when it would thunder and he'd say 'Come on, strike me!'" Roger Cleveland wanted to attend a debate with Dan Barker, a preacher turned atheist (and now FFRF co-president). "I thought, 'Lord, if I'm not meant to go to this, help me.' ...The Lord didn't help me." To her surprise, "everyone was really nice. I went home and read the Bible – for the first time with my mind."
The FFRF distributes a radio program and podcasts via Freethought Radio. Partly in hope of reaching people who have never met an atheist – or never met another atheist – the FFRF has campaigns to put signs in buses and on billboards. ("Sleep In On Sundays," "Beware of Dogma," "Praise Darwin.") Outdoor advertising companies were particularly reluctant. Annie Laurie Gaylor, FFRF co-president, said, "We were unable to purchase billboards for two decades."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 6, 2009 12:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Atheist places"? where are they then?
Posted by: Vark
» "Christian are burnt alive or fed to lions"
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Christian are burnt alive or fed to lions"
Posted by: Ghoulman
» Uh, Constantine had enjoyed watching xtians eaten by lions
Posted by: xvictor
» "What about Christians trying to live in atheist places?"
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "What about Christians trying to live in atheist places?"
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: jroth420
» Get out of your hole, walk around, make some friends
Posted by: shanaza
» Actually, I do and that's why I have no problem wearing my pantyhose under my shorts in public.
Posted by: maxpayne
» I live in San Jose, California, and you should see some of the looks
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: I live in San Jose, California, and you should see some of the looks
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Ok so it's time for something constructive !
Posted by: That_SOB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: abstractedaway on Aug 6, 2009 1:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in a religious home and school, and was raised a true believer. As a child, I really thought my meaning in life was to be a christian and lead others into being that way too; life apart from that was unspeakable. I may as well have not been born if not to serve the fundamentalist god. That was the mindset I was raised in, and large numbers of other children as well. Jesus Camp just begins to explain this mindset.
Coming out atheist caused an uproar. I had to fear getting kicked out of home while I was still trying to commute to college. I endured a lot of guilt tripping for setting an example to my younger sibling and her youthful mistakes were blamed on me.
I can keep in contact with very few of my former colleagues. Most of them ask what church I'm going to, and upon finding out none, and that I will not humbly accept the pejorative "backslider" and admit I need to go to church again, but rather proudly assert myself as an atheist, often get the cursory "I'll pray for you" in a tone few cranky Brits would muster for their most withering "Good day". I had to nearly start my social life over from scratch.
Even public colleges like Christopher Newport are up to their ears in religion. It was not uncommon to have classes disrupted by boisterous worship services on campus.
My experience is that this article's story is not uncommon in Virginia. It's not the whole story, but the region is pretty thick with it, and should an atheist disparage other beliefs as the southern baptists and pentecostals clearly feel entitled to, they do it in invitation of a lot of harassment. The further South you go, the crazier it gets. I would in all seriousness fear for my life if I engaged in atheist/freethinking activism in Pensacola, Florida for example.
I have washed my hands of my former homestate with this being one of my largest reasons. In the parlance of these God-'n-guns Bible thumpers, let the dead go bury their dead. I've moved far away and am glad not to be choking on the high-handed rhetoric of snake-oil peddling charlatans who think they have a shred of morality to talk down to others about.
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» RE:I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: abstractedaway
» Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: abstractedaway
» WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» VA Beach used to be a rural county but it has changed and the Christian dominance has weakened some.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: bettyn
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: abstractedaway
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: Blondinista
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: jimmyaj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DanoM on Aug 6, 2009 12:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't "come out" to my parents or siblings. They might suspect, but I know that some would have real trouble with it. Even not accepting Jesus in a manner chosen by my aunt has me destined to burn in hell.
I was raised in a devout christian home, and didn't even really know what an atheist was. Not believing in god wasn't even an option in the house I grew up in. If your parents and those around you always claim there is a god who is a kid to ask otherwise?
Now move away from home and find the whole religion thing isn't quite making as much sense anymore. You're told growing up that satan would tell 10 truths to get you to believe 1 lie and lead you astray. Heaven and hell are literal places. Christians are constantly being tempted. The threats to your soul's peril are faced daily. On and on it goes for the devout well indoctrinated worshiper.
Years of indoctrination don't just disappear overnite. Took me a few years to break totally free on my own, maybe with information like we have in abundance today it would have made that much faster and simpler.
I don't feel the need to go to an atheist community group, but can see where some might find it helpful in many ways.
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» RE: I'm a midwestern atheist
Posted by: abstractedaway
» I'm in the Midwest, and very much like you
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: I'm a midwestern atheist
Posted by: MT512
» midwestern agnostic without community
Posted by: Word Mix
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 6, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: djkrugger
» And if you don't like that church then try this one.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: bentes
» Sorry, but if you're a non-believer,
Posted by: Aimleft
» Never the 'twain shall meet.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: talkville
» GOD is evolution.
Posted by: jimmyaj
» How about: God 50% exists and 50% doesn't. I can believe
Posted by: Vark
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Aug 6, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call it marketing or whatever, I consider myself a rationalist, a scientist. I need PROOF for anything you want me to BELIEVE. If you do not have it, call me later when you do.
There is not one speck of evidence for any god and the real kicker is that there is not one speck of evidence for the miracle producing Jesus, who supposedly actually walked this land 2000 years ago.
Think of it. If this MAN actually existed, their would be the usual anthropological, archeological, evidence for such a person. There is NONE! As a recovering catholic, I have searched for it, and found NADA.
This is the biggest kick in the ass to any Christian. Gods (invisible friends), we can possibly argue about their existence, but in this day of supposed reason we have ways to prove whether a person of any substance actually walked this earth.
I tell my Christian "friends" to just call me when they have evidence for ANYTHING they just want me to BELIEVE in.
Faith," said St. Paul, "is the evidence of things not seen." We should elaborate this definition by adding that faith is the assertion of things for which there is not a particle of evidence and of things which are incredible.
Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
Ministers do not know whether or not there is a heaven, or a hell, or a God or anything after death; but they talk as if they have been raised with God and played marbles with Christ.
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» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: Aimleft
» Usually when someone gets horrified by it
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: talkville
» So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: beastfan
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: suprmark
» When you say that evolution means we descended from monkeys...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: talkville
» "Monkies"??? Were You Home-Schooled?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: OH Suprmark, there is no ponit in giving you evidence...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: OH Suprmark, there is no ponit in giving you evidence...
Posted by: jaded
» RE:jaded: Gimme a few names of scientists...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: freedem
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Aug 6, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Woodpecker on Aug 6, 2009 3:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Terry
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» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: WomanRebel
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: talkville
» RE: woodpecker or peckerwood ...
Posted by: shanaza
» Stalin did it, so why can't we?
Posted by: leafsong1
» Christians arent persecuted for their religion in cuba
Posted by: mv_mc
» Hitler and the Lord's work
Posted by: lolisforidiots
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Posted by: COinms on Aug 6, 2009 3:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Southern Christians are big hypocrites; they love God, but love Bush too. They pray, but they send their young men off to kill and be killed in war. They love America but hate Obama. You get the idea.
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» Of course it is
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: bthespoon on Aug 6, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm just trying to warn people so they're not surprised.
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» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: laoma
» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: teddy
» Try turning that around; it works both ways.
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: Try turning that around; it works both ways.
Posted by: Aimleft
» To illustrate...
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: soundman
» Can't Be Bigger Than the Drowning Christ in Monroe OH!
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: teddy on Aug 6, 2009 4:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who ask should be told to mind their own business.
Why would you want to "out" yourself or a family member at all? You can't convince religious nuts of the value of your position. Or are you trying to gain forgivenness or acceptance? That can't happen, and maybe you just need to grow up and take your lumps.
Find others who (dis)believe as you do - it doesn't show, you know. Just insist that your religion is a private matter and stop looking for approval. Protect your dignity.
That said, I do think that this emphasis on Xianity has as much to do with White chauvinism/supremacy as with faith ("real Americans"). It's gotta be more than mere coincidence that some of the most Xian groups are also the most racist and vice versa. People forget that Nazism was closely allied with Xianity, not paganism. ("Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" was the world defined for women)
You're wise to steer clear of that kind of religion altogether. Rock on!
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» RE: Why is it...
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aislinnluv on Aug 6, 2009 4:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dude--I emphasize with you TOTALLY on this!
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: Thresher
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: jumperladd
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: mkahn
» That Wasn't a Safety Reminder?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: That Wasn't a Safety Reminder?
Posted by: mkahn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Aug 6, 2009 5:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This group of so-called “Freethinkers” is nothing but the reverse side of that worn out “religion” coin and they are no different from those that they, supposedly, distance themselves from. Both sides of this smarmy “coin” gather together in insecure little groups to bolster each other’s beliefs. Both sides waste money erecting billboards to SHOUT out their claims for or against some primitive “god”. One side worships “Jesus”; the other side worships Darwin…both merely flawed Talking Apes. Both sides turn into pathetic whiners whenever their beliefs are questioned or mocked…and in doing so, they present themselves as innocent “martyrs”. I suspect that whenever either side is “martyred”, they secretly relish it: “Oh, please, do it again! It hurts so good!”
Both sides are equally ridiculous and beneath contempt.
I live in a very rural area, deep in the Southern bible-belt, a couple of miles away from the nearest “town”, which is…literally…a 4-corners where 2 county roads cross, with one blinking traffic light. There’s a convenience-store on one corner, a small hardware/ sporting goods store on another, a tiny “mom-and-pop grocery on the third and the forth corner is vacant. That’s it! Many of the locals…not that there are that “many”…are deeply “religious”, attend church on Sundays and constantly refer to “The Lord”. I have been a true Freethinker for over 40 years without the dubious need for some support-group to keep my beliefs…and lack of beliefs…strong. Since it’s such a small town, we, all, pretty much know each other and NEVER ONCE has anybody pounded my head with a bible or told me that I am Hellbound because I don’t accept “Jesus” as my personal savior or believe in some mythical “god”. In fact, since we’re all Southerners and bred to be polite, we don’t discuss “religion” at all.
Which, as far as I’m concerned, is the way it should be!
Believe…or don’t believe…whatever nonsense you chose to. Just keep it to yourself and shut-the-hell up!
A simple solution to a non-problem.
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» Is this place...called??.
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: LOL
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: "WE DON'T FEEL ANYONE'S SOUL NEEDS TO BE SAVED." REALLY???
Posted by: xmvince
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Aug 6, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thus, the churches become a hiring hall where the most outspoken "witnesses" will get the offers, while at the same time, the church leaders are often the corporate thieves and KKK slumlords who keep the community poor.
I'd love to take some of these stump-knocking, Bible-thumping human resources jerks into a court of law for violation of open shop laws, just to get some fairness in the workplace.
And, of course, if you are not Christian, when your neighbors decide to take your job, force you to sell your worldly goods at garage-sale rates, and foreclose your house, then it's God's will, and he's given all of your life away because you weren't obedient.
It's a particularly despicable organized crime racket.
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» RE: It's the local version of the rackets.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Aug 6, 2009 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Wisdom should be circumspect among the insane.
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: Wisdom should be circumspect among the insane.
Posted by: talkville
» Right Talkville, but it would be refreshing to see quantum mechanics debated as passionately.
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: ight Talkville, but it would be refreshing to see quantum mechanics debated as passionately.
Posted by: talkville
» Nope...
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Nope...
Posted by: talkville
» RE: A word to the wise
Posted by: InsideOut
» RE: A word to the wise
Posted by: talkville
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frantic1971 on Aug 6, 2009 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rastaman on Aug 6, 2009 7:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
geez that sounds paranoid.....but it's true.
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» RE: Not JUST Atheists....any non KKKristian is closeted
Posted by: andrushka
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Posted by: Derestanne on Aug 6, 2009 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And make no mistake - it's not about God or Devil - it is about CONTROL. Control of individuals, society, government. Control of ideas; control of behavior; control of EVERYTHING. That is the Christian ideal of "Heaven on Earth" but it sounds like pure Hell to me!
I sleep at night knowing that what Christians seek is both impractical and impossible. Especially since they are world class hypocrites who enjoy cheating, stealing and particularly sexual license of every description. They seek control of everyone else except themselves. These are unsustainable amoral values and such individuals had better wake up soon!
"To do good is noble. To tell others how to do good is nobler still - and a lot less trouble".
--- Mark Twain
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» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: Derestanne
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beck on Aug 6, 2009 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Free thinking" seems to HAVE to contain the germ of knowing that you either could be wrong, or, regarding the unknowable, you could change your mind. Seems like any evolving person SHOULD change their mind.
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» Most of these posts are written by victims of intolerance
Posted by: shanaza
» You seem to suggest
Posted by: factbased
» A fundamentalist atheist
Posted by: Vark
» That depends
Posted by: mkahn
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Posted by: MT512 on Aug 6, 2009 7:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even among the people who don't wear their Christianity on their sleeves, mentioning your atheism is usually a shock. People here are just so used to hearing only reinforcements of the same narrow views that any expression outside of that thin range causes pity, fury, fear, sometimes condescending curiosity, and most often plain old resentment for going against the grain. Do you agree with the local majority? Talk all you want. But do you have an opinion that contrasts it in the slightest? Keep that shit to yourself... You're just trying to get attention... Arguing for the sake of argument... (And one of my faves, when they actually try to have a "discussion" about it) Science is just as dogmatic as religion.
I don't broadcast my atheism, but I don't hide or deny it when people strike up a conversation about religion. This has elicited very telling reflexive reactions:
- But you're such a nice person! (usually shaking their heads in genuine confusion)
- So (again, genuinely very confused)... then, what's to keep you from, you know, robbing a bank, or raping someone?
Of course, in neither instance does the good Christian have the slightest clue just how insulting their reactions are (I never said, upon learning of someone's Christianity, "Oh, but you're smart!"). And for the second example, I think that tells me more about them... So the only reason you don't rob a bank is fear of divine punishment? That's weird. I don't do it because it's wrong to steal.
This is why I think it is important to be plain about your atheism. You don't have to advertise it, but don't hide it when the topic comes up. People need these little reminders that not everyone thinks like they do... and that's perfectly OK.
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» RE: In Atlanta, So True...
Posted by: manumiso
» MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THIS:
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Aug 6, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: peterjkraus on Aug 6, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A: "The line cook at La Hacienda? Sure I know him"
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» RE: 'Do you know Jesus?' Best. comeback. ever.
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: sowles on Aug 6, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: misbegotten
Posted by: MT512
» OP is crude, but does make a point
Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: OP is crude, but does make a point
Posted by: MT512
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Aug 6, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Atheists are finally starting to come out of the closet and try to find a place in mainstream society as equals. We're the latest. First it was women, then blacks, then Hispanics, then gays, and now us. Yet, despite all the advances from these past movements, it doesn't get any easier, because male Christian whitey wants to maintain dominance, and sure enough, he has, despite any and all efforts to the contrary.
I've never discussed in detail my atheism with my parents, but once about three years ago when the topic came up, I said that I saw nothing wrong with following my own moral code. My father's ever-so-casual retort to that was "Well so did Hitler." I immediately noted to him that Hitler, like my father, was a Catholic, and at the very least, he was theist, not atheist, and I walked out the door.
They say that we're oppressing them by simply opening our mouths and attempting to be acknowledged. They said the same things when blacks tried for their moment in the sun. They're saying the same things while gays try to gain equality. Maybe people will realize this time that it's not about equality so much as it's about getting a very patriarchal, machismo religion to stop belittling other viewpoints, even when those viewpoints pose no physical threat to them whatsoever.
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Posted by: It just is on Aug 6, 2009 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It just is
Posted by: MT512
» RE: It just is
Posted by: xmarlon27
» Have courage. Time will heal your son faster than his tormentors.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: It just is
Posted by: laoma
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richard0a37 on Aug 6, 2009 10:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
• In the heads of the bankers, the money machine tyrants, the chemical and biological weapons manufacturers, the spreaders of disinformation and outright lies by a media intent on brainwashing and dumbing down the population for profit and political supremacy;
• In the heads of the creators and designers of TV advertisements who resort to any kind of despicable and low life methods to sell products, the majority of which no one needs
• In physics, chemistry and other research laboratories who have no need of God in order to further greater knowledge and gain greater understanding of the sciences and of the world in which we live in
• In nearly every single workplace where the emphasis is on getting a particular job done, and where any reference to a religion would be utterly inappropriate
In a sane world, Man would have no need for religion, for in our day to day existence, God doesn’t exist. But, like death and taxes, powerful forces foist God on an unsuspecting public and get the stricken to believe that God actually means something.
The vast majority of people don’t know why they believe in God. They just feel they ought to, except that in many cases, this feeling is so damned strong that imagining life in the absence of such a force is quite unthinkable.
Some people say that the mentality of the Human Race is locked in the middle ages. They are wrong. It’s as strong now as it was 2,000 years ago, and nothing short of a wholesale uprooting of Man’s base love affair with the supernatural is going to alter things one iota.
Infatuation with the supernatural should have died when Thompson discovered the electron in 1894, when it became apparent that the structure of matter is completely different to what our cavemen ancestors thought.
But you know people. Half of them live in a dream world dominated by unseen and unproven beliefs that should have gone the way of the dodo.
And it makes me life that people want to mention the atrocities of 2,000 years ago in order to somehow justify the continuation of the same insane way of behaving and thinking today.
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» Stupid argument.
Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: Stupid argument.
Posted by: richard0a37
» RE: Here are a few 'atheist' places
Posted by: richard0a37
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 6, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have had people of faith be shocked that I am an atheist, "but he is so nice." "He is a good person." Yeah, a lot of us are, some real jerks, but the jerks exists in all population groups, including the religious.
I still think that atheist should join up with progressive religious organizations for social justice change.
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» RE: Atheist are still not trusted
Posted by: MT512
» I prefer
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: I prefer
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Atheist are still not trusted
Posted by: abstractedaway
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Aug 6, 2009 1:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, you put on your finery for the occasion, so you can impress others?
So you gather in cliques to gossip about other parishoners and insult them behind their backs?
So, you debase yourselves by listening to the charlatan on the pulpit telling you what worms you are unless you think and act in a manner approved by him, prostrating yourself before him in prayer, singing his hymns, and jumping through whatever hoops he devises for you?
So, you pay the phony baloney "man of god" for his insulting performance?
So, you leave the church, completely unscathed by the experience, because you're just as stupid, ignorant, hateful, and intolerant as you were BEFORE your attendance?
If this is what it means to be a christian, you can have it.
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» Pretty Much Right ...
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: rafaeltoral on Aug 6, 2009 3:12 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: lolisforidiots
» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
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Posted by: dooglefish on Aug 6, 2009 3:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: lolisforidiots
» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: MT512
» He's your god, you burn in hell.
Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: Zeugitai
Comments are closed-
Posted by: socrates2 on Aug 6, 2009 4:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a rule _believers_ have not reasoned themselves to their conclusions, so they can't be reasoned out of them either.
That said, my response to "Do you believe in God?"
A: "I don't even possess an _immortal soul_. What difference does it make?"
The _assumption_ of your typical believer is that we will "live on" post-mortem. Cut the debate short: "I am stardust, baby. As 'nothing is created or destroyed only transformed,' every particle in me is already "immortal." My "ego" (or rather my _illusion_ of it) will be _annihilated_ when I die. Next question...
Damn! What is it about death and dying that people find so terrifying? It's a natural process, folks.
Was anyone in the room afraid of "life" and "existence" half hour _before_ he took his first breath of air? I doubt it. Same goes for the opposite direction.
Do we live in a nation of _cowards_? An individual's belief system and his embrace of metaphysical "entities" tells me a lot about his courage and attitude toward existence. Life takes _guts_. Life is contingent, it is uncertain, unpredictable, and loaded with _insecurity_, moment to moment.
The chicken-hearted need not apply or remain. No offense to anyone who loves their arsenal, but in the back of my head I have always assumed that's why religious folks _need_ their guns...
"Security," what a concept.
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Posted by: DaBear on Aug 6, 2009 5:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still it took me a decade to come out, and when I did to my Dad it was a shout-fest on my brothers lawn while my Dad attacked me for a solid hour or more. We've talked only about the weather ever since. I'm sure he prays for my soul and I no longer give a fuck.
I have nothing but sympathy for those atheists in Xtian nationalist controlled areas. Being stuck in the closet or brutalized for coming out is a total craptasm to endure.
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Aug 6, 2009 6:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Do you know Jesus?" Yah, he mows my lawn.
Posted by: bitsfick
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Aug 6, 2009 6:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» When the penguins abused you...
Posted by: mv_mc
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Posted by: bettyn on Aug 6, 2009 6:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At last, I was LIBERATED and able to be an atheist as well as a liberal Democrat! How nice to be an adult and free from religion! No more sitting in some crowded varnish-smelling pew listening to some bored moron with a Southern accent drone on about "Gawd" and "Jeeeeeeeeeeebus" while my stomach growled and my eyes kept going shut(Sundays are INDEED for sleeping!)while some kid was kicking the back of my seat. (Undoubtedly he was as bored as I was.)
I do not care what anyone else believes as long as they keep their religion to themselves. If they do not, I don't associate with them. No one (and I mean NO ONE) will ever drag me into another house of worship as long as I live. I do like most sacred music (The classics, please. No "Open the Eyes of My Heart" or other "Christian rock".), but my affection for religion ends there and will stay that way. Enough, in my case, was indeed enough! (Ditto my lapsed Eastern European Catholic husband. He still runs away when he sees nuns coming toward him!)
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Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Aug 6, 2009 6:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lolisforidiots on Aug 6, 2009 6:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kary
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» RE: Atheists in foxholes
Posted by: MT512
» From what I've seen...
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 6, 2009 8:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I regret most is that there is a wonderful evolution of serious religious discussion underway that gets neglected. With the allowance of study of religion in higher education, we have trained academics who are exploring religion within the academic disciplines. It is coming so fast, I cannot keep up.
I ran across a reference to a journal titled "Political Theology" originating in the UK. It has been around for 10 years, but this was the first I had heard. Sure, it has lots of apologizing for traditional orthodoxies. But it also has insights (I've only read a bit from it) that open new windows. I know of another handful of sources that promise a more fertile field for discussion of religion. So, folks, somewhere out there in the darkness is what may be a new dawn. I keep looking.
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 7, 2009 8:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/08/news-anchor-too-gay/
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Posted by: wtfo on Aug 8, 2009 8:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit I always had my doubts and actually just pretended to believe most of the time. Then one day I vividly remember seeing a movie (if you can reasonably call it that) in school about the vision of the Virgin Mary by some young children. I don't remember too much in particular about it now, but I DO remember a quotation at the end saying something to the effect of:
"To those who believe, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not believe, no explanation is possible".
Even at my young age, this was such an absurd statement of "religious logic" that there and then I decided I had had enough of this school. Over time, my parents let me attend the local public school and I believe eventually I was successfully "de-programmed".
Now I live in the Atlanta suburbs and find myself essentially back in Catholic school again. The religiosity in this area is beyond belief and stifling to any truly creative thinking and problem solving individual. To be accepted, you must conform to the overt Christian God. Else, you are looked down upon or scorned or pitied by those who have either been "reborn" or never lost the faith to begin with.
So, I have decided to leave as soon as possible and head to somewhere else that is a bit more progressive and free-thinking. My ultimate dream is to tour Western Europe and hopefully find a society that is much less religious, much more progressive, and built upon a society where people work and live together in peaceful harmony for the RIGHT reasons.
I am not interested in living in a country in which all its citizens believe their society should be built upon the bedrock of an all-seeing, omniscient, all-powerful super being whose sole purpose is to guide us sinful people into some improbable state of perpetual nirvana. Instead I am looking for a country built on the concept that all their citizens are entitled to freedom of thought, religion (which includes freedom FROM religion), and freedom from the complete corporatization of their citizens and their institutions of health, government, employment, and financial wellbeing – if such a place even exists anymore…
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» RE: When I Was Young...
Posted by: Zeugitai
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Posted by: aberdeen on Aug 9, 2009 12:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
www.FreedomTracks.com
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» RE: Maybe Southerners Don't Like Liars
Posted by: cats.anon
» You have plenty of evidence for the existence of God?
Posted by: Vark
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Posted by: Zeugitai on Aug 9, 2009 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tactical "Christians"
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 6, 2009 12:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» "Atheist places"? where are they then?
Posted by: Vark
» "Christian are burnt alive or fed to lions"
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "Christian are burnt alive or fed to lions"
Posted by: Ghoulman
» Uh, Constantine had enjoyed watching xtians eaten by lions
Posted by: xvictor
» "What about Christians trying to live in atheist places?"
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "What about Christians trying to live in atheist places?"
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: mike1997
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: talkville
» RE: Nonsense. I live in VA Beach, home of Pat Robertson, and there are plenty of atheists doing fine.
Posted by: jroth420
» Get out of your hole, walk around, make some friends
Posted by: shanaza
» Actually, I do and that's why I have no problem wearing my pantyhose under my shorts in public.
Posted by: maxpayne
» I live in San Jose, California, and you should see some of the looks
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: I live in San Jose, California, and you should see some of the looks
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Ok so it's time for something constructive !
Posted by: That_SOB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: abstractedaway on Aug 6, 2009 1:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I grew up in a religious home and school, and was raised a true believer. As a child, I really thought my meaning in life was to be a christian and lead others into being that way too; life apart from that was unspeakable. I may as well have not been born if not to serve the fundamentalist god. That was the mindset I was raised in, and large numbers of other children as well. Jesus Camp just begins to explain this mindset.
Coming out atheist caused an uproar. I had to fear getting kicked out of home while I was still trying to commute to college. I endured a lot of guilt tripping for setting an example to my younger sibling and her youthful mistakes were blamed on me.
I can keep in contact with very few of my former colleagues. Most of them ask what church I'm going to, and upon finding out none, and that I will not humbly accept the pejorative "backslider" and admit I need to go to church again, but rather proudly assert myself as an atheist, often get the cursory "I'll pray for you" in a tone few cranky Brits would muster for their most withering "Good day". I had to nearly start my social life over from scratch.
Even public colleges like Christopher Newport are up to their ears in religion. It was not uncommon to have classes disrupted by boisterous worship services on campus.
My experience is that this article's story is not uncommon in Virginia. It's not the whole story, but the region is pretty thick with it, and should an atheist disparage other beliefs as the southern baptists and pentecostals clearly feel entitled to, they do it in invitation of a lot of harassment. The further South you go, the crazier it gets. I would in all seriousness fear for my life if I engaged in atheist/freethinking activism in Pensacola, Florida for example.
I have washed my hands of my former homestate with this being one of my largest reasons. In the parlance of these God-'n-guns Bible thumpers, let the dead go bury their dead. I've moved far away and am glad not to be choking on the high-handed rhetoric of snake-oil peddling charlatans who think they have a shred of morality to talk down to others about.
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» RE:I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: I think this comment of yours says is all "I would in all seriousness fear for my life...
Posted by: abstractedaway
» Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» RE: Playing cards??? Drinking wine???
Posted by: abstractedaway
» WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: WHAT'S THIS NONSENSE ABOUT "COMING OUT"???
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» VA Beach used to be a rural county but it has changed and the Christian dominance has weakened some.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: bettyn
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: abstractedaway
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: Blondinista
» RE: I on the other hand concur
Posted by: jimmyaj
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DanoM on Aug 6, 2009 12:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I haven't "come out" to my parents or siblings. They might suspect, but I know that some would have real trouble with it. Even not accepting Jesus in a manner chosen by my aunt has me destined to burn in hell.
I was raised in a devout christian home, and didn't even really know what an atheist was. Not believing in god wasn't even an option in the house I grew up in. If your parents and those around you always claim there is a god who is a kid to ask otherwise?
Now move away from home and find the whole religion thing isn't quite making as much sense anymore. You're told growing up that satan would tell 10 truths to get you to believe 1 lie and lead you astray. Heaven and hell are literal places. Christians are constantly being tempted. The threats to your soul's peril are faced daily. On and on it goes for the devout well indoctrinated worshiper.
Years of indoctrination don't just disappear overnite. Took me a few years to break totally free on my own, maybe with information like we have in abundance today it would have made that much faster and simpler.
I don't feel the need to go to an atheist community group, but can see where some might find it helpful in many ways.
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» RE: I'm a midwestern atheist
Posted by: abstractedaway
» I'm in the Midwest, and very much like you
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: I'm a midwestern atheist
Posted by: MT512
» midwestern agnostic without community
Posted by: Word Mix
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Aug 6, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: djkrugger
» And if you don't like that church then try this one.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: bentes
» Sorry, but if you're a non-believer,
Posted by: Aimleft
» Never the 'twain shall meet.
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: talkville
» GOD is evolution.
Posted by: jimmyaj
» How about: God 50% exists and 50% doesn't. I can believe
Posted by: Vark
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Aug 6, 2009 2:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call it marketing or whatever, I consider myself a rationalist, a scientist. I need PROOF for anything you want me to BELIEVE. If you do not have it, call me later when you do.
There is not one speck of evidence for any god and the real kicker is that there is not one speck of evidence for the miracle producing Jesus, who supposedly actually walked this land 2000 years ago.
Think of it. If this MAN actually existed, their would be the usual anthropological, archeological, evidence for such a person. There is NONE! As a recovering catholic, I have searched for it, and found NADA.
This is the biggest kick in the ass to any Christian. Gods (invisible friends), we can possibly argue about their existence, but in this day of supposed reason we have ways to prove whether a person of any substance actually walked this earth.
I tell my Christian "friends" to just call me when they have evidence for ANYTHING they just want me to BELIEVE in.
Faith," said St. Paul, "is the evidence of things not seen." We should elaborate this definition by adding that faith is the assertion of things for which there is not a particle of evidence and of things which are incredible.
Faith means not wanting to know what is true.
Ministers do not know whether or not there is a heaven, or a hell, or a God or anything after death; but they talk as if they have been raised with God and played marbles with Christ.
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» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: Aimleft
» Usually when someone gets horrified by it
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: talkville
» So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: beastfan
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: shanaza
» RE: irrelevant to the conversation ...
Posted by: suprmark
» When you say that evolution means we descended from monkeys...
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: So you don't believe humans evolved from monkies, global warming, superstring theory, Shakespeare?
Posted by: talkville
» "Monkies"??? Were You Home-Schooled?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: OH Suprmark, there is no ponit in giving you evidence...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: OH Suprmark, there is no ponit in giving you evidence...
Posted by: jaded
» RE:jaded: Gimme a few names of scientists...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: I really feel that the term atheist...
Posted by: freedem
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Aug 6, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Woodpecker on Aug 6, 2009 3:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Terry
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» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: laoma
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: WomanRebel
» RE: Gosh, isn't it TERRIBLE to be an atheist in the "Bible Belt"
Posted by: talkville
» RE: woodpecker or peckerwood ...
Posted by: shanaza
» Stalin did it, so why can't we?
Posted by: leafsong1
» Christians arent persecuted for their religion in cuba
Posted by: mv_mc
» Hitler and the Lord's work
Posted by: lolisforidiots
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Posted by: COinms on Aug 6, 2009 3:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Southern Christians are big hypocrites; they love God, but love Bush too. They pray, but they send their young men off to kill and be killed in war. They love America but hate Obama. You get the idea.
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» Of course it is
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: bthespoon on Aug 6, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm just trying to warn people so they're not surprised.
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» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: laoma
» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: teddy
» Try turning that around; it works both ways.
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: Try turning that around; it works both ways.
Posted by: Aimleft
» To illustrate...
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: I live in the Belly Button of the Bible Belt
Posted by: soundman
» Can't Be Bigger Than the Drowning Christ in Monroe OH!
Posted by: iolanthe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: teddy on Aug 6, 2009 4:28 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who ask should be told to mind their own business.
Why would you want to "out" yourself or a family member at all? You can't convince religious nuts of the value of your position. Or are you trying to gain forgivenness or acceptance? That can't happen, and maybe you just need to grow up and take your lumps.
Find others who (dis)believe as you do - it doesn't show, you know. Just insist that your religion is a private matter and stop looking for approval. Protect your dignity.
That said, I do think that this emphasis on Xianity has as much to do with White chauvinism/supremacy as with faith ("real Americans"). It's gotta be more than mere coincidence that some of the most Xian groups are also the most racist and vice versa. People forget that Nazism was closely allied with Xianity, not paganism. ("Kinder, Kirche, Kueche" was the world defined for women)
You're wise to steer clear of that kind of religion altogether. Rock on!
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» RE: Why is it...
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
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Posted by: aislinnluv on Aug 6, 2009 4:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dude--I emphasize with you TOTALLY on this!
Posted by: frantic1971
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: Thresher
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: jumperladd
» RE: rednecks, guns and Jesus
Posted by: mkahn
» That Wasn't a Safety Reminder?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: That Wasn't a Safety Reminder?
Posted by: mkahn
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Aug 6, 2009 5:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This group of so-called “Freethinkers” is nothing but the reverse side of that worn out “religion” coin and they are no different from those that they, supposedly, distance themselves from. Both sides of this smarmy “coin” gather together in insecure little groups to bolster each other’s beliefs. Both sides waste money erecting billboards to SHOUT out their claims for or against some primitive “god”. One side worships “Jesus”; the other side worships Darwin…both merely flawed Talking Apes. Both sides turn into pathetic whiners whenever their beliefs are questioned or mocked…and in doing so, they present themselves as innocent “martyrs”. I suspect that whenever either side is “martyred”, they secretly relish it: “Oh, please, do it again! It hurts so good!”
Both sides are equally ridiculous and beneath contempt.
I live in a very rural area, deep in the Southern bible-belt, a couple of miles away from the nearest “town”, which is…literally…a 4-corners where 2 county roads cross, with one blinking traffic light. There’s a convenience-store on one corner, a small hardware/ sporting goods store on another, a tiny “mom-and-pop grocery on the third and the forth corner is vacant. That’s it! Many of the locals…not that there are that “many”…are deeply “religious”, attend church on Sundays and constantly refer to “The Lord”. I have been a true Freethinker for over 40 years without the dubious need for some support-group to keep my beliefs…and lack of beliefs…strong. Since it’s such a small town, we, all, pretty much know each other and NEVER ONCE has anybody pounded my head with a bible or told me that I am Hellbound because I don’t accept “Jesus” as my personal savior or believe in some mythical “god”. In fact, since we’re all Southerners and bred to be polite, we don’t discuss “religion” at all.
Which, as far as I’m concerned, is the way it should be!
Believe…or don’t believe…whatever nonsense you chose to. Just keep it to yourself and shut-the-hell up!
A simple solution to a non-problem.
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» Is this place...called??.
Posted by: walldodger1969
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Is this place...called??.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: LOL
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: factbased
» RE: Yes, really.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: "WE DON'T FEEL ANYONE'S SOUL NEEDS TO BE SAVED." REALLY???
Posted by: xmvince
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Aug 6, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thus, the churches become a hiring hall where the most outspoken "witnesses" will get the offers, while at the same time, the church leaders are often the corporate thieves and KKK slumlords who keep the community poor.
I'd love to take some of these stump-knocking, Bible-thumping human resources jerks into a court of law for violation of open shop laws, just to get some fairness in the workplace.
And, of course, if you are not Christian, when your neighbors decide to take your job, force you to sell your worldly goods at garage-sale rates, and foreclose your house, then it's God's will, and he's given all of your life away because you weren't obedient.
It's a particularly despicable organized crime racket.
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» RE: It's the local version of the rackets.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
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Posted by: talkville on Aug 6, 2009 5:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Wisdom should be circumspect among the insane.
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: Wisdom should be circumspect among the insane.
Posted by: talkville
» Right Talkville, but it would be refreshing to see quantum mechanics debated as passionately.
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: ight Talkville, but it would be refreshing to see quantum mechanics debated as passionately.
Posted by: talkville
» Nope...
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Nope...
Posted by: talkville
» RE: A word to the wise
Posted by: InsideOut
» RE: A word to the wise
Posted by: talkville
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Posted by: frantic1971 on Aug 6, 2009 6:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rastaman on Aug 6, 2009 7:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
geez that sounds paranoid.....but it's true.
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» RE: Not JUST Atheists....any non KKKristian is closeted
Posted by: andrushka
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Posted by: Derestanne on Aug 6, 2009 7:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And make no mistake - it's not about God or Devil - it is about CONTROL. Control of individuals, society, government. Control of ideas; control of behavior; control of EVERYTHING. That is the Christian ideal of "Heaven on Earth" but it sounds like pure Hell to me!
I sleep at night knowing that what Christians seek is both impractical and impossible. Especially since they are world class hypocrites who enjoy cheating, stealing and particularly sexual license of every description. They seek control of everyone else except themselves. These are unsustainable amoral values and such individuals had better wake up soon!
"To do good is noble. To tell others how to do good is nobler still - and a lot less trouble".
--- Mark Twain
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» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: Derestanne
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Just another hot day in "Christian Hell"
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beck on Aug 6, 2009 7:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Free thinking" seems to HAVE to contain the germ of knowing that you either could be wrong, or, regarding the unknowable, you could change your mind. Seems like any evolving person SHOULD change their mind.
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» Most of these posts are written by victims of intolerance
Posted by: shanaza
» You seem to suggest
Posted by: factbased
» A fundamentalist atheist
Posted by: Vark
» That depends
Posted by: mkahn
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Posted by: MT512 on Aug 6, 2009 7:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even among the people who don't wear their Christianity on their sleeves, mentioning your atheism is usually a shock. People here are just so used to hearing only reinforcements of the same narrow views that any expression outside of that thin range causes pity, fury, fear, sometimes condescending curiosity, and most often plain old resentment for going against the grain. Do you agree with the local majority? Talk all you want. But do you have an opinion that contrasts it in the slightest? Keep that shit to yourself... You're just trying to get attention... Arguing for the sake of argument... (And one of my faves, when they actually try to have a "discussion" about it) Science is just as dogmatic as religion.
I don't broadcast my atheism, but I don't hide or deny it when people strike up a conversation about religion. This has elicited very telling reflexive reactions:
- But you're such a nice person! (usually shaking their heads in genuine confusion)
- So (again, genuinely very confused)... then, what's to keep you from, you know, robbing a bank, or raping someone?
Of course, in neither instance does the good Christian have the slightest clue just how insulting their reactions are (I never said, upon learning of someone's Christianity, "Oh, but you're smart!"). And for the second example, I think that tells me more about them... So the only reason you don't rob a bank is fear of divine punishment? That's weird. I don't do it because it's wrong to steal.
This is why I think it is important to be plain about your atheism. You don't have to advertise it, but don't hide it when the topic comes up. People need these little reminders that not everyone thinks like they do... and that's perfectly OK.
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» RE: In Atlanta, So True...
Posted by: manumiso
» MY QUESTION TO YOU IS THIS:
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Aug 6, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: peterjkraus on Aug 6, 2009 8:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A: "The line cook at La Hacienda? Sure I know him"
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» RE: 'Do you know Jesus?' Best. comeback. ever.
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: sowles on Aug 6, 2009 8:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: misbegotten
Posted by: MT512
» OP is crude, but does make a point
Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: OP is crude, but does make a point
Posted by: MT512
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Aug 6, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Atheists are finally starting to come out of the closet and try to find a place in mainstream society as equals. We're the latest. First it was women, then blacks, then Hispanics, then gays, and now us. Yet, despite all the advances from these past movements, it doesn't get any easier, because male Christian whitey wants to maintain dominance, and sure enough, he has, despite any and all efforts to the contrary.
I've never discussed in detail my atheism with my parents, but once about three years ago when the topic came up, I said that I saw nothing wrong with following my own moral code. My father's ever-so-casual retort to that was "Well so did Hitler." I immediately noted to him that Hitler, like my father, was a Catholic, and at the very least, he was theist, not atheist, and I walked out the door.
They say that we're oppressing them by simply opening our mouths and attempting to be acknowledged. They said the same things when blacks tried for their moment in the sun. They're saying the same things while gays try to gain equality. Maybe people will realize this time that it's not about equality so much as it's about getting a very patriarchal, machismo religion to stop belittling other viewpoints, even when those viewpoints pose no physical threat to them whatsoever.
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Posted by: It just is on Aug 6, 2009 10:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It just is
Posted by: MT512
» RE: It just is
Posted by: xmarlon27
» Have courage. Time will heal your son faster than his tormentors.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» RE: It just is
Posted by: laoma
» RE: It just is
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richard0a37 on Aug 6, 2009 10:37 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
• In the heads of the bankers, the money machine tyrants, the chemical and biological weapons manufacturers, the spreaders of disinformation and outright lies by a media intent on brainwashing and dumbing down the population for profit and political supremacy;
• In the heads of the creators and designers of TV advertisements who resort to any kind of despicable and low life methods to sell products, the majority of which no one needs
• In physics, chemistry and other research laboratories who have no need of God in order to further greater knowledge and gain greater understanding of the sciences and of the world in which we live in
• In nearly every single workplace where the emphasis is on getting a particular job done, and where any reference to a religion would be utterly inappropriate
In a sane world, Man would have no need for religion, for in our day to day existence, God doesn’t exist. But, like death and taxes, powerful forces foist God on an unsuspecting public and get the stricken to believe that God actually means something.
The vast majority of people don’t know why they believe in God. They just feel they ought to, except that in many cases, this feeling is so damned strong that imagining life in the absence of such a force is quite unthinkable.
Some people say that the mentality of the Human Race is locked in the middle ages. They are wrong. It’s as strong now as it was 2,000 years ago, and nothing short of a wholesale uprooting of Man’s base love affair with the supernatural is going to alter things one iota.
Infatuation with the supernatural should have died when Thompson discovered the electron in 1894, when it became apparent that the structure of matter is completely different to what our cavemen ancestors thought.
But you know people. Half of them live in a dream world dominated by unseen and unproven beliefs that should have gone the way of the dodo.
And it makes me life that people want to mention the atrocities of 2,000 years ago in order to somehow justify the continuation of the same insane way of behaving and thinking today.
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» Stupid argument.
Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: Stupid argument.
Posted by: richard0a37
» RE: Here are a few 'atheist' places
Posted by: richard0a37
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Posted by: chaoslegs on Aug 6, 2009 11:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have had people of faith be shocked that I am an atheist, "but he is so nice." "He is a good person." Yeah, a lot of us are, some real jerks, but the jerks exists in all population groups, including the religious.
I still think that atheist should join up with progressive religious organizations for social justice change.
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» RE: Atheist are still not trusted
Posted by: MT512
» I prefer
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: I prefer
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Atheist are still not trusted
Posted by: abstractedaway
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Aug 6, 2009 1:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, you put on your finery for the occasion, so you can impress others?
So you gather in cliques to gossip about other parishoners and insult them behind their backs?
So, you debase yourselves by listening to the charlatan on the pulpit telling you what worms you are unless you think and act in a manner approved by him, prostrating yourself before him in prayer, singing his hymns, and jumping through whatever hoops he devises for you?
So, you pay the phony baloney "man of god" for his insulting performance?
So, you leave the church, completely unscathed by the experience, because you're just as stupid, ignorant, hateful, and intolerant as you were BEFORE your attendance?
If this is what it means to be a christian, you can have it.
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» Pretty Much Right ...
Posted by: iolanthe
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Posted by: rafaeltoral on Aug 6, 2009 3:12 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: lolisforidiots
» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Fuck the south.
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dooglefish on Aug 6, 2009 3:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: lolisforidiots
» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: MT512
» He's your god, you burn in hell.
Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: My Favorite Bumper Sticker
Posted by: Zeugitai
Comments are closed-
Posted by: socrates2 on Aug 6, 2009 4:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a rule _believers_ have not reasoned themselves to their conclusions, so they can't be reasoned out of them either.
That said, my response to "Do you believe in God?"
A: "I don't even possess an _immortal soul_. What difference does it make?"
The _assumption_ of your typical believer is that we will "live on" post-mortem. Cut the debate short: "I am stardust, baby. As 'nothing is created or destroyed only transformed,' every particle in me is already "immortal." My "ego" (or rather my _illusion_ of it) will be _annihilated_ when I die. Next question...
Damn! What is it about death and dying that people find so terrifying? It's a natural process, folks.
Was anyone in the room afraid of "life" and "existence" half hour _before_ he took his first breath of air? I doubt it. Same goes for the opposite direction.
Do we live in a nation of _cowards_? An individual's belief system and his embrace of metaphysical "entities" tells me a lot about his courage and attitude toward existence. Life takes _guts_. Life is contingent, it is uncertain, unpredictable, and loaded with _insecurity_, moment to moment.
The chicken-hearted need not apply or remain. No offense to anyone who loves their arsenal, but in the back of my head I have always assumed that's why religious folks _need_ their guns...
"Security," what a concept.
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Posted by: DaBear on Aug 6, 2009 5:31 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still it took me a decade to come out, and when I did to my Dad it was a shout-fest on my brothers lawn while my Dad attacked me for a solid hour or more. We've talked only about the weather ever since. I'm sure he prays for my soul and I no longer give a fuck.
I have nothing but sympathy for those atheists in Xtian nationalist controlled areas. Being stuck in the closet or brutalized for coming out is a total craptasm to endure.
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Aug 6, 2009 6:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Do you know Jesus?" Yah, he mows my lawn.
Posted by: bitsfick
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Aug 6, 2009 6:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» When the penguins abused you...
Posted by: mv_mc
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Posted by: bettyn on Aug 6, 2009 6:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At last, I was LIBERATED and able to be an atheist as well as a liberal Democrat! How nice to be an adult and free from religion! No more sitting in some crowded varnish-smelling pew listening to some bored moron with a Southern accent drone on about "Gawd" and "Jeeeeeeeeeeebus" while my stomach growled and my eyes kept going shut(Sundays are INDEED for sleeping!)while some kid was kicking the back of my seat. (Undoubtedly he was as bored as I was.)
I do not care what anyone else believes as long as they keep their religion to themselves. If they do not, I don't associate with them. No one (and I mean NO ONE) will ever drag me into another house of worship as long as I live. I do like most sacred music (The classics, please. No "Open the Eyes of My Heart" or other "Christian rock".), but my affection for religion ends there and will stay that way. Enough, in my case, was indeed enough! (Ditto my lapsed Eastern European Catholic husband. He still runs away when he sees nuns coming toward him!)
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Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Aug 6, 2009 6:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: lolisforidiots on Aug 6, 2009 6:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kary
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» RE: Atheists in foxholes
Posted by: MT512
» From what I've seen...
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Sojourner on Aug 6, 2009 8:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I regret most is that there is a wonderful evolution of serious religious discussion underway that gets neglected. With the allowance of study of religion in higher education, we have trained academics who are exploring religion within the academic disciplines. It is coming so fast, I cannot keep up.
I ran across a reference to a journal titled "Political Theology" originating in the UK. It has been around for 10 years, but this was the first I had heard. Sure, it has lots of apologizing for traditional orthodoxies. But it also has insights (I've only read a bit from it) that open new windows. I know of another handful of sources that promise a more fertile field for discussion of religion. So, folks, somewhere out there in the darkness is what may be a new dawn. I keep looking.
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 7, 2009 8:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/08/news-anchor-too-gay/
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Posted by: wtfo on Aug 8, 2009 8:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit I always had my doubts and actually just pretended to believe most of the time. Then one day I vividly remember seeing a movie (if you can reasonably call it that) in school about the vision of the Virgin Mary by some young children. I don't remember too much in particular about it now, but I DO remember a quotation at the end saying something to the effect of:
"To those who believe, no explanation is necessary. To those who do not believe, no explanation is possible".
Even at my young age, this was such an absurd statement of "religious logic" that there and then I decided I had had enough of this school. Over time, my parents let me attend the local public school and I believe eventually I was successfully "de-programmed".
Now I live in the Atlanta suburbs and find myself essentially back in Catholic school again. The religiosity in this area is beyond belief and stifling to any truly creative thinking and problem solving individual. To be accepted, you must conform to the overt Christian God. Else, you are looked down upon or scorned or pitied by those who have either been "reborn" or never lost the faith to begin with.
So, I have decided to leave as soon as possible and head to somewhere else that is a bit more progressive and free-thinking. My ultimate dream is to tour Western Europe and hopefully find a society that is much less religious, much more progressive, and built upon a society where people work and live together in peaceful harmony for the RIGHT reasons.
I am not interested in living in a country in which all its citizens believe their society should be built upon the bedrock of an all-seeing, omniscient, all-powerful super being whose sole purpose is to guide us sinful people into some improbable state of perpetual nirvana. Instead I am looking for a country built on the concept that all their citizens are entitled to freedom of thought, religion (which includes freedom FROM religion), and freedom from the complete corporatization of their citizens and their institutions of health, government, employment, and financial wellbeing – if such a place even exists anymore…
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» RE: When I Was Young...
Posted by: Zeugitai
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Posted by: aberdeen on Aug 9, 2009 12:36 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who Would Jesus Bomb?
www.FreedomTracks.com
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» RE: Maybe Southerners Don't Like Liars
Posted by: cats.anon
» You have plenty of evidence for the existence of God?
Posted by: Vark
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Posted by: Zeugitai on Aug 9, 2009 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tactical "Christians"
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
Why It's So Tricky for Atheists to Debate with Believers
7 Reasons for Atheists to Celebrate the Holidays
Hot, Steamy Mormons: Are the Latter Day Saints Getting Sexy?




