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ForeignPolicy

Do We Have the Courage to Stop War with Iran?

By Ray McGovern, AlterNet. Posted September 3, 2007.


Witnessing the build-up to an unprovoked attack on Iran is like watching a train crash in slow motion. But it can be stopped -- if we do something about it.
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Why do I feel like the proverbial skunk at a Labor Day picnic? Sorry, but I thought you might want to know that this time next year there will probably be more skunks than we can handle. I fear our country is likely to be at war with Iran -- and with the thousands of real terrorists Iran can field around the globe.

It is going to happen, folks, unless we put our lawn chairs away on Tuesday, take part in some serious grassroots organizing and take action to prevent a wider war -- while we still can.

President George W. Bush's speech Tuesday lays out the Bush/Cheney plan to attack Iran and how the intelligence is being "fixed around the policy," as was the case before the attack on Iraq.

It's not about putative Iranian "weapons of mass destruction," not even ostensibly. It is about the requirement for a scapegoat for U.S. reverses in Iraq and the White House's felt need to create a casus belli by provoking Iran in such a way as to "justify" armed retaliation, eventually including air strikes on its nuclear-related facilities.

Bush's Aug. 28 speech to the American Legion comes five years after a very similar presentation by Vice President Dick Cheney. Addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars on Aug. 26, 2002, Cheney set the meretricious terms of reference for war on Iraq.

Sitting on the same stage that evening was former CENTCOM commander Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, who was being honored at the VFW convention. Zinni later said he was shocked to hear a depiction of intelligence (Iraq has WMD and is amassing them to use against us) that did not square with what he knew. Although Zinni had retired two years before, his role as consultant had enabled him to stay up to date on key intelligence findings.

"There was no solid proof that Saddam had WMD … I heard a case being made to go to war," Zinni told Meet the Press three and a half years later.

(Zinni is a straight shooter with considerable courage, and so the question lingers: Why did he not go public? It is all too familiar a conundrum at senior levels; top officials can seldom find their voices. My hunch is that Zinni regrets letting himself be guided by a misplaced professional courtesy and/or slavish adherence to classification restrictions, when he might have prevented our country from starting the kind of war of aggression branded at Nuremberg the "supreme international crime.")

Cheney: dean of pre-emption

Zinni was not the only one taken aback by Cheney's words. Then-CIA director George Tenet says Cheney's speech took him completely by surprise. In his memoir Tenet wrote, "I had the impression that the president wasn't any more aware than we were of what his No. 2 was going to say to the VFW until he said it."

Yet, it could have been anticipated. Just five weeks before, Tenet himself had told his British counterpart that the president had decided to make war on Iraq for regime change and that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

When Bush's senior advisers came back to town after Labor Day, 2002, the next five weeks (and by now, the next five years) were devoted to selling a new product -- war on Iraq. The actual decision to attack Iraq, we now know, was made several months earlier but, as then-White House chief of staff Andy Card explained, no sensible salesperson would launch a major new product during the month of August, Cheney's preemptive strike notwithstanding. Yes, that's what Card called the coming war: a "new product."

After assuring themselves that Tenet was a reliable salesman, Cheney and then-defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld dispatched him and the pliant Powell at State to play supporting roles in the advertising campaign: bogus yellowcake uranium from Niger, aluminum tubes for uranium enrichment, and mobile trailers for manufacturing biological warfare agent, the whole nine yards. The objective was to scare or intimidate Congress into voting for war, and, thanks largely to a robust cheering section in the corporate-controlled media, Congress did so on Oct. 10 and 11, 2002.

This past week saw the president himself, with that same kind of support, pushing a new product -- war with Iran. And in the process, he made clear how intelligence is being fixed to "justify" war this time around. The case is too clever by half, but it will be hard for Americans to understand that. Indeed, the Bush/Cheney team expects that the product will sell easily -- the more so, since the administration has been able once again to enlist the usual cheerleaders in the media to "catapult the propaganda," as Bush once put it.


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Former CIA analyst Ray McGovern is co-founder of Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity.



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Suicide
Posted by: sculptor on Sep 3, 2007 12:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bush's Bumbling Troop of Clowns attacks Iran then we'll get our asses kicked out of Iraq. Our supply lines in Iraq run through the Shite south of the country and a united uprising there backed by Iranian troops would be devastating.

Furthermore, if Bush does this the candidates from the Peace and Freedom Party will get more votes than Republicans in the next election.

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» RE: Suicide Posted by: richholland
» RE What use have votes? Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Suicide Posted by: EKSwitaj
» RE: Suicide Posted by: CaptainChurch
Re: Do We Have the Courage to Stop War with Iran?
Posted by: borat99 on Sep 3, 2007 12:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Answer: NO

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Attack Iran With What?
Posted by: rogus on Sep 3, 2007 1:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Considering how strained our troop levels currently are - what are we going to fight them on the ground with? At best we could try carpet bombing - but then what? Eventually this will end up a ground war which we don't currently have the troops to fight. Iran will have to retaliate - then what?

A draft or nuclear weapons maybe?

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» RE: Attack Iran With What? Posted by: richholland
» Three days of bombing Posted by: LeftWright
Kos Censorship
Posted by: Nebris on Sep 3, 2007 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Daily Kos pulled its article "We Are Going To Hit Iran. Bigtime", which reported a number of details about the preparation for the attack on Iran. Is Markos getting to too close to The Powers That Be? Or did they threaten him?

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» adjustment needed Posted by: Brasilaaron
A Psychological Perspective on Warmongering
Posted by: Roy Eidelson on Sep 3, 2007 3:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those interested in a psychological analysis of warmongering, I have recently completed a 10-minute online video entitled “Resisting the Drums of War.” It examines how the Bush administration has promoted the misguided and destructive war in Iraq by targeting five core concerns that often govern our lives--concerns about vulnerability, injustice, distrust, superiority, and helplessness. Looking ahead, the continuing occupation of Iraq--or an attack on Iran--will likely be sold to us in much the same way. The video examines these warmongering appeals and how to counter them. It’s available for viewing HERE.

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» This was excellent Posted by: kww355
Michael
Posted by: maolson on Sep 3, 2007 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The planned three day blitz to take out Iran's whole military is an act of aggression ranking with the greatest war crimes in the history of the world.

It is time to impeach Bush and Cheney who have trashed the Constitution and are already war criminals.

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Shock and Awe v.2.0
Posted by: farmertx on Sep 3, 2007 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember how well shock and awe worked in Iraq? Well, neither do I.
No doubt the Shootist is pressing this on the Shrub. The Shrub has a choice; do as he is told or risk a terrorist incident involving him. Not that the Shootist would stage anything, but...
It is painfully obvious that the Democrat's are more interested in keeping the bribes flowing than in remembering their Oath of Office.
And, face it, Shrub won't pay any attention to Congress regardless.
Politics as usual got us into this mess and it sure as hell ain't gonna get us out.

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Will the real decider please stand up!
Posted by: Basenjis on Sep 3, 2007 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In his memoir Tenet wrote, "I had the impression that the president wasn't any more aware than we were of what his No.2 was going to say..............until he said it."

So why shouldn't Cheney be arrested and impeached on the grounds of impersonating a president?

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» Cheney Posted by: kww355
Mary
Posted by: maryMS on Sep 3, 2007 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until we step back and realize that the Bushites do not give a damn about America, we can do nothing to stop them. Cheney loves war. He was awarded a $10 billion close-bid contract to rebuild Iraq after we "scorch-earth" that country. I am sure he will make a good deal more money when we flatten Iran. George W. thinks saying that God is on our side makes the whole disaster of this war okay. It is obvious that both Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, and most people in the Bush Administration hold the American people in great distain. They do not give a damn about us or our country.

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War with Iran is a diversion
Posted by: metamind on Sep 3, 2007 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There isn't going to be any real "war" with Iran. There might be a few air strikes but nothing like what has been proposed as a "super-strike" for three days.

How do I know? Because that would be the trigger for global economic collapse. The Iranians have the power to close down the oil industry in the Middle East. That means closing down the global economy. Everyone knows it.

The real question which is being unanswered by this talk of war with Iran is "What should U.S. foreign policy be?"
Right now it's almost entirely based on the ridiculous notion of a "War on Terror."

The "War on Terror" is supposedly about Osama bin Laden and his gange of terrorists, but in reality is is about anyone who objects to the "rule of money." ( Those who have the money rule those who don't )

As long as we are talking about Iran, Iraq or Osama bin Laden we aren't talking about the true terrorist of our time: MONEY.

The eocnomic system is terrorizing us all in a multitude of ways. We need a new economy, one which will support global sustainability. That means we need to CONSUME LESS and SHARE MORE. Money is going in the opposite direction.

Why are there one billion Muslims? Why is it the fastest growing religion in the world? Because it speaks to the need for "transcendent values" .... values for something other than money itself.

If we had a foreign policy based on global sustainability and respect for human rights, rather than the rule of money and respect for the global elite, we would be ending the CAUSE of the terrorism problem rather than fighting the symptoms.

What should U.S. Foreign Policy be? I assure you Hillary Clinton is offering "more of the same failed policies" that Bush and the fascist Repbulicans have been giving us for years.

Reject Hillary. Listen to Dennis Kucinich, Bill Richardson and Mike Gravel ... all who support ending the war in Iraq ASAP.

Steve Moyer
http://stevemoyer.us

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The American Public is Getting What it Wants ... Regardless of Consequences
Posted by: phshafe on Sep 3, 2007 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been reports that widespread public protest helped end the Vietnam war. Similar protest, ongoing, widespread and strong, might have curtailed the Iraq war by now. Many have offered opinions as to why such protest has not lately been apparent. It is hard not to believe that this is because the American public worships its standard of living, which is heavily oil dependent and the maintenance of which relies on a sustained, if not growing, U.S. military presence in the Middle East, using force wherever "necessary" to achieve the oil access goal. The American public will accept the slaughter of millions of innocents to maintain its own short-term standard of living gains. But in the end, those who sacrifice honor for wealth will have neither, as history has shown again and again.

For more on this from the great thinkers of our time, try works by Morris Berman and James Kunstler as well as the latter's Web sites.

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Don't fall for this again
Posted by: packofwolves on Sep 3, 2007 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot believe that our country would fall for the Bush/Cheney (war criminals') deceipt again and send more of our young men and women to fight another war that serves no purpose other than to satisfy their twisted, sick minds. We can't handle Iraq, how could we possibly believe attacking another country will be any better? We will be thrown into another world war should we attack another country and it is a war we will not win. And it will be a war that the US started. Let me repeat myself in case you didn't catch that: it is a war we will not win. Can you blame Iran for wanting protection? Unfortunately, it is the US they are protecting themselves from. We are the bullies, the terrorists. If I were Iran and having to deal with the US, given what the US has already done, I would want protection too. I am ashamed of our country for attacking Iraq and starting this war; and what is this, are we now preparing to be deceived again? Are we willing to sacrifice our children for their war? This is much worse than having Bush/Cheney in office for two terms. In the short time of the Bush/Cheney administration, they have trampled our constitution, taken away our rights (more than you can imagine), spied on us, tortured detainees, supported corruption, are both completely corrupt themselves, sent our sons and daughters to their deaths based on lies, crippled our finances, and well on their way to destroying our infrastructure (leave no child behind is a joke). The damage the Bush/Cheney administration has already done is so severe, we will likely never recover. The full impact of their corruption is not even known yet, and I fear will be far worse as time goes by. Bush/Cheney want a dictatorship, even Bush said so in the beginning, but we ignored his comment. Wanting to be a dictator is not a joke when you are running for the presidency of the US. After all we've been through, how can we possibly even allow Bush/Cheney to talk about attacking another country? We are the People, we are the Power. Demand accountability. IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY. THEY ARE WAR CRIMINALS. Save what little of our country we have left. Put our energy into rehabilitating our country and ourselves, realigning with our allies and acting as humans rather than barbarians/terrorists. Working together for a better world is far better than being the problem of the world.

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Impeach Now!
Posted by: Urstrly on Sep 3, 2007 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So how can we distract our Democratic candidates and Congress from their electoral politics long enough to impeach Bush and Cheney? It is a matter of gravest concern. Every morning that I wake up and we haven't attacked Iran I count as a blessing, but I feel sure they intend to do it. By now I feel sure there's no one left in the Pentagon to object, if there ever was. Maybe a word from Colin Powell? Tom Friedman signalled a while ago in his NYTimes column that he was ready to give up Iraq (which, of course, he supported attacking) so that we might divert our resources to Iran. We'll be lucky if we don't trigger Armegeddon. And, of course, that is exactly what some folks have in mind.

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US Policy To Blame, Stop Backing Israel
Posted by: sofla100 on Sep 3, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How to stop the impending war. Change US policy. Stop the uneqivocal backing of Israel and her military buildup in the Middle East. Iran is reacting self-defensively to this buildup and the massive presence of US forces in the Middle East. The USA needs to quite provoking war with miliary aggression in the region. Want Iran to change her ways? Propose and push a "nuclear free Middle East." It starts with Israel dismantling her 250+ estimated nuclear bombs.

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» Stop Blaming Israel Posted by: aonghus36
» RE: Stop Blaming Israel Posted by: opeluboy
News
Posted by: chomsky on Sep 3, 2007 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S.-Israeli Draft
http://www.takimag.com/site/article/cut_out_the_middleman/

IAEA confirms the "peaceful nature of Iran's nuclear activities"
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=6655

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There's no way...
Posted by: custersbud on Sep 3, 2007 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the US public is aware of the potential catastrophe the Bush/Cheney war criminals are about to visit on our country. The vast majority are too involved with Lindsay Lohan's latest escapades, or the rescue of 6 trapped miners, to pay attention to the issues that really matter. Folks will watch tonight's evening news, see Bush's blathering about the "success" in Iraq, made from the safety of a remote area of Iraq where lots of impressive photos can be taken, and go to bed convinced that everything's OK. Let's face it folks; the American public could have stopped this lunacy in 2004, but liked what they saw and voted for more. They don't know what's happening, and just plain and simply don't give a shit, or there would be millions of people in the streets this Labor Day making the Viet Nam protests look like the Sunday ice cream social! There aren't.

I'd like to be more optimistic, but can't be.

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Iran
Posted by: Johanna Moren on Sep 3, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe you should use the heading, "Stop the Killing."
As I read through all these letters, there is not a mention of the suffering of the Iraki people, or, the mention of the thousands that would die in Iran, now, and for years afterwards, from D.U. W.M.D that have already been used in Irak.
It is discussed as if these places are empty of human beings.
Or is that how we see the people of these countries, just as we did the Vietnamese. We went there, destroyed their country, left, put sanctions on them, did everything to keep up the destruction, and, the world looked on and did nothing.
The Iranians are being punished because they won't do as the BIG BULLY tells them to do.
Any descent American would be out on the street,calling for him to go. Where are they??
Maybe the majority like being the rulers of the world by force.
America is not a Democracy, it is a Republic,and Republics are run by the elit for the elit, hence the poverty.
Johanna Moren

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STOP THIS SENSELESS WAR
Posted by: JonA on Sep 3, 2007 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IMPEACHMENT IS THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS INSANE GOVERNMENT. WE CAN NOT TOLERATE THIS ASININE LEADERSHIP FOR ANOTHER YEAR OR MORE THAT IS SINKING OUR COUNTRY, AND PEOPLE, INTO TO A QUICKSAND OF HOPELESSNESS. PLEASE... NO MORE LIES THAT LEAD US FURTHER INTO A VACUMM OF MORAL DESPAIR...NO MORE WARS, KILLINGS AND LOSS OF OUR MILITARY YOUTH. ALL LIES... AND YET, MOST LISTEN TO THE NEW LIES NOW BEING PLAYED TO ATTACK IRAN. IMPEACH.... OR IMPRISON.... STOP THIS FOLLY OF DEATH.

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» RE: STOP THIS SENSELESS WAR Posted by: VZEQICVA
MORE USELESS TALK
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Sep 3, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush will attack Iran and anyplace else if the spirit moves him. We can debate and discuss and blog all we want. As long as he and Cheney are left in office, it's about war, war and more war. They love it and it's profitable. They may be crazy, but they are in charge and nobody wants to change that. Constitutional Crisis, Causis Belli mean nothing. They can now lock-down the entire country. Now it's about taking to the streets and taking back what is ours. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: MORE USELESS TALK Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: MORE USELESS TALK Posted by: Lincoln fan
Our Most Pressing Problem
Posted by: Lincoln fan on Sep 3, 2007 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't mean to downplay the the necessity of avoiding the war in Iran, Far from it, it's a vital issue. But, I submit that control of our government is more important. We have many problems and the satisfactory solution to each is for the people to control the government.

We have various factions who are separately trying to get the public to back their particular issue. Each wants to gain control of the government to solve their issue. I think that what we need is an overall strategy that presents all of these issues to our political party leaders simultaneously. To force the parties to declare their stands on each issue. To have planks in their platforms before the election making clear whatt hey will do about each important issue. If each voter who has a most important issue says to both parties,"I won't vote for your candidate unless he backs my issue and if neither party's candidate supports my issue I'll cast a protest vote against both parties", we can take control of both parties, and hence, control of the government.

It's "high noon", time for a showdown. We can put the people in control of our government before the first vote is cast. And that's the only time that we can do it.
Bob Reichenbach,
Director, The Lincoln Initiative.

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Yet again?!!!
Posted by: Knowmad on Sep 3, 2007 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Do We Have the Courage to Stop War with Iran?"

First of all, it won't be a war. It will be yet another illegal preemptive attack on a sovereign nation without UN approval. As for you stopping it, it doesn't seem to be much of a priority, judging by the general lack of emotion and concern of all but your relatively few more progressive and aware.

And do you also have the courage to stop your run amok children-in-charge who are systematically taking down your country - and perhaps mine (Canada) and others? It sure doesn't look like that's very likely either . . . no one in the streets, almost no one on your msm appalled at the prospect, progressives seemingly quite content to sit around and whine and moan and wax academic and be all affronted, while offering virtually no substantive suggestions as to what to actually do. (I btw have suggested at least half a dozen actual initiatives over the past months. Very few even comment on them, much less try them - though I live in hope).

Just as you're so quick to duck responsibility for putting this corrupt filth in power, for two terms, are you also going to say there's nothing you could have done about the potential Iran atrocity and the pillaging of your country? It's a question all reasonable Americans might ask themselves.

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» Yet again?!!! (addendum) Posted by: Knowmad
A question...
Posted by: Tim Chadron on Sep 3, 2007 8:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do any of the authors of blogs such as this one ever send their articles directly to our Representatives to supply them with a little light reading?

I wonder how many of our legislators visit sites such as this?(my guess is not too many) Maybe if they were supplied with articles such as this one, an article and subsequent comments that would let our elected officials know that there are folks out there that understand what is happening in our world (not that they'd care) and that WE care what happens to our country, maybe they would experience an uncomfortable itching sensation that would cause them to pause and consider the ramifications of their decisions. Maybe this should be a policy of the Alternet. All major articles with hard documentable facts presented with corresponding opinion should be sent to all of our nations representatives, complete with the best comments from the blogosphere. We may as well help them "see the light" as it is apparent that many of them live in caves and only see what is within a few inches of their noses.

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» RE: A question... Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A question... Posted by: militaryhater
» RE: A question... Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A question... Posted by: Tim Chadron
» RE: A question... Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: A question... Posted by: phindrup
Confused
Posted by: im1013 on Sep 3, 2007 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What amazes me the most about this whole disgusting mess, is that the people of this country aren't taking to the streets en mass, demanding the removal of the worst CRIMINALS this country has ever seen! I have been waiting since the day this "Republican Mafia" stole the election in 2000, thinking that every time we find out about one of the more atrocious acts committed against democracy, or humanity in general, "the people won't be able to stand for this". But, amazingly, nothing happens! Sure they bitch and complain, but that's about it. I often wonder how bad it really has to get before people will actually inconvenience themselves enough to do something... anything! I've driven to Washington a few times for protest marches, and there was quite a few people there, but not enough. Even if people just stand on the street corner of their own hometown...anything!. We have to do something. If we just continue to wait until someone else does it, it's not going to happen. I honestly think it will take mass rioting across the country to make some kind of impact.

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» RE: Confused Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Confused Posted by: im1013
DA BUMS
Posted by: SackofWoe0 on Sep 3, 2007 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say throw the Bums (Bush and Cheney) out of office. Impeach them both now! Before they with their lying selves get us into another war. They are war criminals and should be put on trial.

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People against WAR are a MINORITY!
Posted by: militaryhater on Sep 3, 2007 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are brainwashed. Everyone I talk to buys the reason that Iran is supplying weapons to the insurgents and thus 'killing our boys!' Even the soldier involved in the Haditha killings that appeared on 60 minutes has no remorse. Are others in this country that brainwashed into believing we are better than the world? Why don't young people care? Brainwashed by RAP music the drug of the youth! Turn all kids into 'GANGSTAS'...the music so full of hate. Hate is broadcast in video games, music and movies..Movies that portray Arabs as evil backward people.

Americans are like sheep...easily brainwashed by TV and what they hear. They aren't taught to critically think.

Arrogance...we are better...we deserve to control the oil, Israel is righteous...it all makes me sick. A country filled with religious self righteous hateful Christian lunatics..evangelicals who think 'Jesus' is coming back..marching to help Israel who doesn't even believe in Jesus!

Let's shave Bush and Cheney's head...the '666' has to be there.

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What's real?
Posted by: willymack on Sep 3, 2007 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some thoughts here on what's REALLY happening in our country, and what must be done about it if we're to restore some measure of what we had before.
1. The 2000 & 2004 "elections" were stolen by the bushies, and they are in office ILLEGALLY.
2. We, the people of the "Land of the Free and Home of the Brave" did absolutely NOTHING to punish the bushies for these crimes.
3. The hideous crime of 911 seems more likely than not to be a construct of a shadow government and rogue elements of our military and "intelligence" communities than the actions of a few Arab patsies run by a fugitive in a cave.
4. Since the theft of the 2000 election from Al Gore, it's been all downhill, with one atrocity after another inflicted upon a helpless Iraq and our comatose citizens-some of whom STILL believe that the bushies are a bunch of swell guys.
5. The bush juggernaut continues on its merry way, despite an overwhelimng mandate against the Iraq "war", the "war on terror", and administration policies favoring the super-rich and ignoring everyone else, in 2006.
6. We, the American people have given in to this evil regime with nary a murmer, especially from those supposedly elected to set things right. What hope for the future can we possibly have if all this is allowed to continue without opposition?
The bushies MUST be prosecuted for their crimes, including the crimes of TREASON, WAR CRIMES, CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY, and WAR PROFITEERING, all of which have no statute of limitations as they are capital crimes. A full accounting of their crimes must be made crystal-clear to our people. This should be done whether the bushies are in or out of power. This is not revenge; it's a MORAL obligation we owe to ourselves and to the future of our nation.

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» RE: What's real? Posted by: im1013
Comfortably Numb
Posted by: NumberSix on Sep 3, 2007 11:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have to face some unpleasant facts, like it or not: We who hang around the blogs, the websites, yes, we are better informed of insanity, oh, yes. Not so the rest of the nation.

And I honestly think our government prefers it that way: Far better the folks watch tube, ogle the latest "story"...concerning which Hollyweird 15-minutes and counting idiot is doing whatever, than for them to climb out of their chairs and oh, hhmm, read? Like, a paper? A book? A blog or two?

I'd hate to take a poll around some neighborhoods, yes. You and me know way too much, but it appears we are but a little noisy bunch. Meanwhile, Mom and Dad Apple Pie park their noses in La-la land, oblivious to the real insanity in their precious land.

Funny. An old friend, he passed away some time ago. He came to states after WW2. He said the same exact thing about his former.....Germany. "The people were oblivious to everything."

Scary, eh? But, that's the way you boil the frog, eh?

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Keep on Truckin, People!
Posted by: Rosasharn on Sep 3, 2007 1:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there was ever a time to not give up, THIS IS IT! Anymore military pre-emptive war will not be tolerated. These are our grounds for impeachment!
Come on, ya'll! Get up, get out September 15 and shout it out loud, "IMPEACH CHENEY!" and don't forgit "IMPEACH BUSH!". No time for naysayin, folks. Ifin there ain't no protest march planned, THEN, PLAN ONE! In the meantime, write as many letters as yah can. Make the calls, spread the word and do as much as YOU can.

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Join the September 11th general strike
Posted by: LeftWright on Sep 3, 2007 2:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No work. Call in sick if you have to.

No school. Give the kids a lesson in real, grassroots democracy.

No shopping. Money talks and we have to make them LISTEN.

Tell everyone you know to strike and call their local congressperson and Speaker Pelosi's offices and demand the immediate impeachment of Cheney and Bush.

If you don't want to go out in the street, just stay home and make calls all day.

The only way we will get any real change is if we shut down the economy and force the corrupt elites out into the open. 99% of of the Congress is either corrupt, cowards
or both. We, the people, have to take this into our own hands. If you really want to get active, find your local 9/11 truth group and join them. They are the vanguard of real change and have been out in public protesting and providing real information on the 11th of every month all year. The 9/11 truth movement is international and non-partisan, they only seek a real investigation into the events of 9/11, an end to the phony "war on terror" and the illegal occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq and a restoration of the rule of law in the U.S. and abroad.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

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All Hands on Deck....We have a (possible) non gay related 'outing' announcement...
Posted by: ekipnrut on Sep 3, 2007 3:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note: I said 'possible'
KOS
But ,still and all, the 'Bermuda cyber Triangle' disappearance of the 'We are going to hit Iran....Bigtime' Daily Kos article with 1400 comments , does have sort of an X-(CIA)Files feel to it :O)
[see post in this thread supra about this]
On the other hand, there are DK articles that one can google up on the net in full...but if you cut and paste the article's url , it
goes to an otherwise blank DK screen posting of "sorry I can't seem to find that story".....Hmmmm.....Perhaps the 'Bigtime'
article is...'out there'

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The True Culprits
Posted by: Bill in Chicago on Sep 3, 2007 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again, the administration insists on attacking yet another nation which had nothing to do with 9/11, based on (at best) vacuous evidence.

Perhaps the best way to counter this trash is by shining a white-hot spotlight on those who truly are responsible for 9/11:

www.asecondlookatthesaudis.com

This administration has responded to the deadliest single attack on American soil in our nation's history by attacking the wrong stinkin' country. And all the while they've used the power of the Presidency to cover up and obfuscate evidence implicating the true culprits. Their foreign policy is not just asinine, it is treasonous.

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When the Cell Phones Go Dead
Posted by: malcolmartin on Sep 3, 2007 5:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A US attack on Iran now appears imminent. Multiple sources are providing evidence to this effect.

Our bourgeois democracy, which has been narrowing in recent years will be shut down completely under the pressures of an expanding war in the Middle East and the deep economic crisis which is just around the corner. People who still wonder if Hillary or Obama can become our next president, who still tilt at windmills for Ron Paul, who wonder if scandals have crippled GOP prospects for 2008 have to be among the most pollyannish group in history. Wake up and smell the fascism in the air. Elections will never again decide matters of substance in the United States of America.

There is only one discussion worth having now with the little time that’s left for such things. Likely resisters are certainly known to the government and will be carted away to the camps when the crackdown comes but other potential rebels would benefit from the collective wisdom on the question: What does an effective insurgency look like?

There are many elements to the question ranging from the ideological to the theoretical to the practical. Like, how do we communicate when the cell phones go dead as they did the other day in Bangladesh and the “world wide web” is shut down in favor of the parallel military-industrial interNet? Let's start discussing the nuts and bolts of returning to Thomas Jefferson's version of a government worthy of our people.

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» When the Brain Cells Go Dead Posted by: Knowmad
» Boy in the Bubble? Posted by: malcolmartin
» Reality check please Posted by: Knowmad
Despite the good intentions of a growing majority in America
Posted by: may261989 on Sep 3, 2007 5:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bush wants his war with Iran he will get it.
The Dems will keep funding his war in Iraq and will most likely approve further increases in funds/troops to keep the terrorists from following American troops home ( I'm still wondering where all these 'tearists' will be getting American passports ) .
There will be strong words for sure about accountabillity, but Bush will be privately chuckling at how easy it is to get the Dems to fund his war. He probably prefers the Dems as at least he doesnt have to give the impression he is consulting with Congress - they'll just do what they are told.
Hope everybody is looking forward to paying 10 bucks a gallon for gas.

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Congress
Posted by: Maryanne on Sep 3, 2007 5:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is my understanding that Congress is the only one who can declare war. No declaration, no funding = no war. Or am I being naive?

Why is it that the president (or VP) makes decisions that are not his in the Constitution to make and everyone jumps? Why are his signing statements accepted as law? Why are they just not considered as vetoes of the original bill and brought before the Congress for a vote to override or just to die of attritition? A lot of things seem to happen, not just because the Congress goes along (or caves in) but just because the president (or VP) say it is so. Why is this accepted as fact?

I wish someone would clarify this for me because, despite degrees in history and years of reading current events, I am befuddled.

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» First the bad news: Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: First the bad news: Posted by: scmp
» RE: Congress Posted by: scmp
ONLY HOPE
Posted by: JSquercia on Sep 3, 2007 7:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our only hope is that the military will remember that their
responsibility is to the Constitution and not this gang of fascists and refuse to obey these evil bastards .
I never thought I would see the day when I hoped for a Military Coupe

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Too late for impeachment
Posted by: scmp on Sep 3, 2007 8:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If anyone doubts that these traitors (bush, cheney and 2 thirds of the congress) will not attack Iran, he or she may live on the moon or some fantasy land. Some of the comments here call for impeachment to avoid attacking Iran. Well, first, there isn't anybody in congress to carry out an impeachment (the Gambino and the Genovese are friends now), and, second, the moment they would feel threatened by an impeachment they would start the attack, carry out a false flag operation in the US and declare the martial law. All these will happen anyway, I'm just saying that they will happen even sooner if they feel threatened by an impeachment. For those of the right age, you will carry a rifle, you will fight in the WWIII and you will make bush and cheney even richer.

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» RE: Too late for impeachment Posted by: Constitutionalist75
I'm not worried about Bush war crimes
Posted by: Dboy on Sep 3, 2007 9:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things will have to get A LOT worse in order for them to eventually get better. We Americans are going to have to learn armed resistance again. That will only come from extensive shocks to our system. Sadly, other countries will pay the price in the short-term. Impeachment is very important, as it will be the only way to undo the powers that the executive branch has gained. When Bush leaves office, those crazy powers, torture policies, domestic spying, and secret prisons WILL REMAIN, unless he's taken out by impeachment. Now, I certainly do not believe that Congress has the balls to DO this, therefore things will have to get much worse. Maybe 10 years, or 20, but revolution will be required to right this ship.

Dboy

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Francis
Posted by: Francis on Sep 4, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
War with Iran is a fait accompli. It has been for quite some time. I have not been able to convince a single person of this fact in over a year.We must face facts. America is a criminal enterprise and there is no will or capacity to stop it. We have been little more than a giant killing machine for generations and will continue to be. The whole world is militarizing in response to the threat we pose.

Prepare, if you can, for a global economic collapse of staggering proportions and duration. Prepare also for significant increases in terrorist activity globally and domestically. The misery and suffering wrought by our federal