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ForeignPolicy

Harvard Takes On the Israel Lobby

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted April 4, 2006.


How a seemingly noncontroversial academic paper set off a political firestorm within the foreign policy establishment.
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A few weeks ago two scholars published a study that might have languished in the obscurity of academia.

But the paper was about the impact that the "Israel Lobby" -- which the authors characterized as a loose confederation of like-minded individuals and groups -- has on U.S. policy in the Middle East. So, predictably, it set off a nice little firestorm with accusations of anti-Semitism flying around our most hallowed Ivy League colleges and members of Congress discussing how to respond to the study's "charges."

"The Israel Lobby," by political scientists Stephen Walt of Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago, offered nothing new to the debate about U.S. policy toward the Middle East. The authors established no groundbreaking facts and unearthed no shocking original documents that could change the course of historical understanding.

As Walt and Mearsheimer noted, only their conclusion -- that the Israel Lobby's unprecedented success has shifted U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East away from a narrow focus on America's national interests -- is controversial, and then only by a matter of degree. The data from which they drew that conclusion came largely from Israeli academics and journalists and, as the authors point out, "are not in serious dispute among scholars."

What was interesting about the paper was its authorship and the reaction it elicited from Israel's many U.S. supporters. Those supporters inadvertently proved Walt and Mearsheimer correct on at least one point: the Israel Lobby doesn't tolerate debate about the relationship between the United States and its favorite client state, and it's quick to accuse dissenters of having the vilest of intent.

The New York Sun -- known as a mouthpiece for neoconservatism -- ran six articles about the paper the week it was released. Two were on the front page, above the fold. The first was headlined "David Duke Claims to Be Vindicated by a Harvard Dean" (Walt is the academic dean at the Kennedy School). According to the Sun, "Duke, a former Louisiana state legislator and one-time Ku Klux Klan leader, called the paper 'a great step forward.'" Later in the article -- below the fold -- Duke admits that he hadn't actually read the study.

The guilt-by-association didn't end with Duke -- although he made appearances in a number of other articles about the study, including one in the Washington Post. Terrorists, apparently, also endorsed it: "The Palestine Liberation Organization mission to Washington is distributing the paper, which also is being hailed by a senior member of Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamist organization," according to the Sun.

The Sun's second hit piece quoted two Harvard professors who are "publicly supportive of Israel" and Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., who conceded that the "'dishonest so-called intellectuals' who wrote the paper are 'entitled to their stupidity'" but insisted that it was a matter of common decency "to expose them for being the anti-Semites they are."

That statement alone illustrates one of Walt and Mearsheimer's main points beautifully: "No discussion of how the Lobby operates," they wrote, "would be complete without examining one of its most powerful weapons: the charge of anti-Semitism In fact, anyone who says that there is an Israel Lobby runs the risk of being charged with anti-Semitism, even though the Israeli media themselves refer to America's 'Jewish Lobby.'"

Alan Dershowitz, who fought to get the University of California Press to kill an academic critique of his book "The Case for Israel" (in which he's accused of shoddy research and plagiarism), said the paper was "simply a compilation of hateful paragraphs lifted from other sources and given academic imprimatur." His evidence? Apparently Walt and Mearsheimer used a quote -- from former Time editor Max Frankel's memoir -- that also appeared on some white supremacist website. Dershowitz, without evidence, dismissed the idea that the scholars could have gotten the quote from anywhere but the white power hate sites, bloviating: "[Walt] quotes Max Frankel, as if he read the whole 500 pages of Max Frankel? I promise you they did not read Max Frankel's whole book."


Digg!

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.



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Throw them into the sea?
Posted by: Burton on Apr 4, 2006 1:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joshua, would it make you happy if the US were to abandon Israel altogether? Look at the Israeli geopolitical situation -- a narrow sliver of land on the East Med littoral, the country has no strategic depth. They may have a bigger defense budget (assisted by the US taxpayer) but even so, it is absurdist to think that the Israelis could "threaten" the Middle East without asking why their Arab (and Iranian) does could be so inept militarily.

How do you feel about the four Arab-Israeli Wars (1948, 1956, 1967, 1973)? Don't you think that the constant threat of foreign invasion is what causes the Israelis to adopt its policies. What if another Arab offensive war were to "throw the Jews into the sea" and establish another dictatorship in the Middle East? Is that a suitable end game?

Forget about the immorality of occupation -- the only time they reference the burden the Palestinian population bears or Israel's poor human rights record is to counter the Lobby's claim that the United States has a moral duty to support Israel.

Why do you care about Israeli occupation of Palestine? I have never seen this kind of concern on the left for other occupations. For example, during the Cold War, the USSR occupied Eastern Europe without much protest from the Western left. North Vietnam occupied eastern Laos and Cambodia throughout the Vietnam War with no outrage from the left. For that matter, Jordan and Egypt occupied Palestinian lands from 1948-67 and this never was much of an issue back then.

The point is, Israel is being criticized not so much because it is a Jewish state, but because it is a Western state. The left (generally) attacks imperialism, etc., only when the state in question is part of Western Civilization. When a non-Western state launches aggressive and imperialistic wars, then the silence from the left is deafening. Consider how there never was a leftist-led antiwar movement protesting the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

(I grant exemptions for anarchists who are more consistent in their criticism of the Western, communist and third worlds.)

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» RE: Throw them into the sea? Posted by: JDBishop5
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» RE: Throw them into the sea? Posted by: codingguy
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Do I have this straight?
Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 4, 2006 2:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Israel "has to sit on the sidelines during American-led military actions in the Middle East, including both Gulf Wars" because otherwise no one else would join with the US in those wars?

And that shows the Israel Lobby is so powerful that it doesn't need Israel to do anything?

By the same token, couldn't it be said that the reason the Democrats, with a few exceptions, do not actively oppose the Iraq War is because their opposition would make the policy look good? And that shows them to be powerful? Or does that show them to be weak?

Something is screwy there someplace.

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» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: philame
» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: nikitasan
» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» Say what? Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Say what? Posted by: dave236412
» RE: Do I have this straight? Posted by: elliottness
How is it possible?
Posted by: farhada on Apr 4, 2006 4:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is something special about the US/Israeli relations.

How is it possible that Israel is the only nation on earth which had spied on the US and the spy has been convicted, but still receiving billions of dollars from the US government?

How is it possible that the Israelis have the right to receive billions of dollars from the US government to be able to give free health care to their people, but the poor Americans can not have the same "rights" because it is a "communists" idea to give the whole population free health care?

My final question is, how is it possible that political leaders of one country can support another country without getting into problem? Many of those have double citizenship which in my opinion is an absolute no-no for national security issues, but it seems that when it comes to Israel, that is not a problem at all!

The list can be really big, but my time is so limited

/Farhad

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» RE: How is it possible? Posted by: Doubtom
» Closest allies? Posted by: Lauren
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» RE: How is it possible? Posted by: feller
ho hum, "plus ca change" again ... or
Posted by: jambro on Apr 4, 2006 4:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is there some other way to view the world other than dualistically, black-white, good-evil? it seems that we face a covergence here of the christian right meets pro-israeli meets corporate oil giants meet in the whitehouse. kevin philips latest salvo fired across the bow of the good ship blunderbus, once hearlded as a able ship of state, makes all such critiques solid history but for not having added the por-israel lobby to the equation, although he levels a couple of torpedos from big oil to whatever the latest buzzword for christian loonies who think the sky is falling & god is a mother ship hovering above iraq to take calvinists aboard while dropping great gobs of do-do down on the evil muslims below.

the question is how deeply has america climbed into the looney bin with da governator as head california lotus land nutcase.

harvard's avowedly zionist president larry summers, would have been a bad joke, like how many lawyers dose it ake to chase an ambulance, were it not harvard. who is next? crucify poor old realist meister henry kissenger, probably not, he's got too much viagra pumping to do. but that is a realism / reelism of a different footage ... in short, realism is just too surreal for anybody to take it seriously, so it must be a hyper reality dreamed up by someone who did not take the correct pill offered by matrix ... america the looniful, the land of sky high debt & oil slick shining seas .. go back to sleep as the "z" word will make you pee but the "anti-s" word will block your free passage of liquid relief.

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Irrationality Never Sleeps
Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 4, 2006 4:30 AM   
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Irrationality Never Sleeps

Having Israel as a dependent ally is like having an out of control, self-destructive, egocentric teen as a daughter. Traumatized by the holocaust, Jews deserve compassion, but irrational behavior must be balanced by consideration for the good of all.

Traumatized by 9/11, America is suffering from irrationality also.

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» RE: Irrationality Never Sleeps Posted by: Elmowilcox
» RE: Irrationality Never Sleeps Posted by: Jersey Devil
» RE: Irrationality Never Sleeps Posted by: jrpolitics
The Truth hurts, the times they have a changed
Posted by: eileenflmng on Apr 4, 2006 4:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And more disturbing is the fact that the Pre-millenial dispensationalist and neo-christian zionist John Hagee and his minions have been working hard to become "a more powerful - version of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC)...and will target senators and congressmen on Capitol Hill. "
read more:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/701583.html

“Following the War of 1967, Israel gained an increased portion of USA foreign aid and military budgets, becoming the ‘western pillar’ of the USA strategic alliance against Soviet incursion into the Middle East…

During this period AIPAC and other pro-Israeli lobby agencies began their ascent to power in shaping USA foreign policy.

The Roman Catholic Church and mainline Protestant denominations began to develop a more balanced approach to the Middle East, bringing them closer to the international consensus on the Palestinian question.

Pro-Israel organizations interpreted this shift as being Anti-Israel and in turn began to court the conservative Christians.”

...The Reagan White House hosted a series of seminars from the Israeli lobby and Christian right. This was when Hal Lindsay, Pat Robertson, Jerry Fawell and the Moral majority infiltrated the West Wing.

read more April 4, 2006 WAWA BLOG:
http://www.wearewideawake.org

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The real antisemites
Posted by: rsaxto on Apr 4, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Israeli government and their American supporters are the most antisemitic people on earth because they bomb and invade those semites who happen not to be Jews. Most semites are not jewish so it is really dumb for Jews to call other semites antisemitic. Their propaganda blitzkreig is totally without merit as is the propaganda blitzkreig of Cheney/Bush/Blair.

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» RE: The real antisemites Posted by: codingguy
» RE: The real antisemites Posted by: lamar
» CodingGuy's true colours Posted by: TorontoCanada
» RE: CodingGuy's true colours Posted by: codingguy
» RE: CodingGuy's true colours Posted by: codingguy
» RE: CodingGuy's true colours Posted by: Floseph
Bravo, Joshua Holland! You have just brought the same upon ...
Posted by: Prophit on Apr 4, 2006 5:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..... your own head and that, sir, is courage, something sorely lacking lately in this nation in both politics, academia and the media, both traditional and alternative.

I commend you for doing what you know will bring you condemnation. Its time for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This is an excellent analysis and thanks for telling us about that paper. I would have liked a link to it. I bet its there and I missed it. Will go back and check it out again.

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Not so Simple
Posted by: anothername on Apr 4, 2006 5:22 AM   
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Why is there a US-Israel lobby? This is something I rarely see discussed.

During and after World War II, the U.S. was not quick to accept Jewish refugees, and accepted more than a few scientiests who worked with the Nazis. Then, there is the country of Liberia, which makes me think of Israel - give the Blacks and the Jews their own countries and they won't be so eager to live in the U.S. is how I perceive the reasoning to go.

There also is the ideology of Jews who see themselves first as people of an ethnic religion and then as members of any given nation. There are other religous groups that are trying to emulate this mentality so that they might grow stronger.

I agree that it is difficult to have a discussion on the state of Israel without someone presenting an opinion that the topic is about religion. Seems all too similar to the current condition of discusssions about America where any opinion that is negative about U.S. military actions or tax breaks for the rich is seen as unpatriotic and a threat to the president.

This raises another question: Is the rush to argue anti-Semitism over any verbal attack upon Israel really a religious defense or is it savvy politics to keep discussion away from how a nation is run?

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» RE: Not so Simple Posted by: yellow
1oyate
Posted by: 1oyate on Apr 4, 2006 5:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Israel were a child, every teacher it had ever had would write the same thing on the report card: "Doesn't get along with others." When will Israel realize that existing only by force and deception and the annihiliation of others is no way to live ? And instead of helping this deeply traumatized society/religion/race heal, the US is catching it's psychosis to the point where our country too can only exist by pointing weapons at the rest of the world.

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» RE: 1oyate Posted by: pomes
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America's New Form of Debate
Posted by: dlf on Apr 4, 2006 5:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What was interesting about the paper was its authorship and the reaction it elicited from Israel's many U.S. supporters. Those supporters inadvertently proved Walt and Mearsheimer correct on at least one point: the Israel Lobby doesn't tolerate debate about the relationship between the United States and its favorite client state, and it's quick to accuse dissenters of having the vilest of intent.

The New York Sun -- known as a mouthpiece for neoconservatism -- ran six articles about the paper the week it was released. Two were on the front page, above the fold. The first was headlined "David Duke Claims to Be Vindicated by a Harvard Dean" (Walt is the academic dean at the Kennedy School). According to the Sun, "Duke, a former Louisiana state legislator and one-time Ku Klux Klan leader, called the paper 'a great step forward.'" Later in the article -- below the fold -- Duke admits that he hadn't actually read the study.


I think it is very funny that Joshua Holland has used the same tactic in his responses to people who are anti-illegal immigration (another powerful lobby that has control over the debate). Truthiness is alive and well and these writers that view the exact tactic used in different instances as somehow different, because they agree with one point of view, but not the other are poor excuses for writers. It proves they don't even read what they write. Wonder if you ever did this much research regarding illegal immigration? You seemed to have combed through every paper to find where the media and the pro-Isreal lobby colluded to color the conversation. You should be ashamed to call yourself a journalist.

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» RE: America's New Form of Debate Posted by: FakeCommunityChest
» RE: America's New Form of Debate Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: America's New Form of Debate Posted by: brasilaron
How about separation of church and state?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 4, 2006 6:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone find it odd that the two major allies of the U.S. in the Middle East are Saudi Arabia and Israel? Neither of these countries adhere to a basic democratic principle: separation of church and state. As history has shown, religious institutions should not be running governments.

Nevertheless we spend billions supporting these two regimes, which are essentially religious states that are highly repressive (Saudi Arabia still has public beheadings and forbids women from driving cars, and the continuing campaign to drive Palestinians off land so Israeli 'settlers' can move in is pretty similar to the Chinese invasion of Tibet, or the Sudanese genocide in Darfur).

Of course this just reveals the blatant hypocrisy of the 'campaign to spread democracy in the Middle East' - more like the "campaign to repress the Middle East and steal its natural resources."

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» RE: How about separation of church and state? Posted by: Undercover Brother
RedViper
Posted by: Redviper on Apr 4, 2006 6:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This may surprise you Burton, but I couldn't care less what happens to Israel. For the record, and to head off the inevitable calls of anti-semitism, I feel the same the same way about every other nation.

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» RE: edViper Posted by: mythbuster
» RE: Good Call Posted by: Rowdy714
For all I care.
Posted by: bettsoff on Apr 4, 2006 6:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They can both blow each other to bits for all I care. Only place in the world with a higher concentration of self-righteous military fanatics is the U.S. Any intelligent person from either side should realize the clusterfuck and get the hell out of there.

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Bush's Middle East policy has been good for Israel
Posted by: sausage on Apr 4, 2006 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least so far. What happens in the long run is yet to be seen. But the American destruction and subsequent occupation of Iraq is seen as a positive development by many in Israel.

Israeli journalist Michael Karpin in his book
The Bomb in the Basement: How Israel Went Nuclear and What That Means for the World,Simon & Schuster (January 3, 2006), makes this observation:
"From Israel’s point of view, the war that the United States declared on international terrorism, the end of the Saddam dictatorship and occupation of Iraq by the U.S. coalition, had caused some favorable changes. They wiped away the eastern front that had threatened Israel for years, expedited the waning of the Palestinian armed uprising, and accelerated the pace of the peace process." (page 341)

This was pinned, of course, before the election of Hamas in the Palestinian territories. But in the geopolitical sense Israel is the biggest winner in Bush's "war on terror," more so than the United States. The curious fact seems that the United States gets little in return for this special relationship. But because of entwining currents of fundamentalist religion, both Christian and Jewish, electoral politics and the defense/security complex do not expect this relationship to change any time soon.

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In good faith ??
Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Apr 4, 2006 7:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be a lot easier to dismiss the "anti-semetic conspiracy theories" if

1) self-professed anti-semites didn't react with such glee and approval

and

2) 'foreign policy realists' bothered to mention the extent to which the "Israel Lobby" has been co opted by Christian Dominionists, Evangelicals and Fundimentalists.

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» RE: In good faith ?? Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: In good faith ?? Posted by: aonghus36
» The difference Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: In good faith ?? Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: In good faith ?? Posted by: mythbuster
» Do they? NOT not in THIS article Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: Yeah, it's a shame Posted by: Rowdy714
...which proves we make words mean whatever we want?
Posted by: fool-on-the-hill on Apr 4, 2006 7:13 AM   
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"Semite" has come to mean a subset of the semitic peoples. There's glory for you!

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Anti Israel is NOT Anti Semitic
Posted by: Undercover Brother on Apr 4, 2006 8:01 AM   
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no more than being Anti G.W. Bush is being Anti American.

Iseal is a nation state with government leadership that has been soaked in scandel for half a century or more...not unlike our 230 years of government.

YES, they like many other nations and territories lobby the US for our support, be it money or war or our working poor's jobs.

this is not anti semitic...this is POLITICS...get over it

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Chomsky on "The Israel Lobby"
Posted by: codingguy on Apr 4, 2006 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Short version for those who don't want to read the entire article: After he lauds the authors for their "courage," he spends the rest of the article pointing out why it's bullshit.

The Israel Lobby?
by Noam Chomsky
March 28, 2006
I've received many requests to comment on the article by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt (henceforth M-W), published in the London Review of Books, which has been circulating extensively on the internet and has elicited a storm of controversy. A few thoughts on the matter follow.
It was, as noted, published in the London Review of Books, which is far more open to discussion on these issues than US journals -- a matter of relevance (to which I'll return) to the alleged influence of what M-W call "the Lobby." An article in the Jewish journal Forward quotes M as saying that the article was commissioned by a US journal, but rejected, and that "the pro-Israel lobby is so powerful that he and co-author Stephen Walt would never have been able to place their report in a American-based scientific publication." But despite the fact that it appeared in England, the M-W article aroused the anticipated hysterical reaction from the usual supporters of state violence here, from the Wall St Journal to Alan Dershowitz, sometimes in ways that would instantly expose the authors to ridicule if they were not lining up (as usual) with power.
M-W deserve credit for taking a position that is sure to elicit tantrums and fanatical lies and denunciations, but it's worth noting that there is nothing unusual about that. Take any topic that has risen to the level of Holy Writ among "the herd of independent minds" (to borrow Harold Rosenberg's famous description of intellectuals): for example, anything having to do with the Balkan wars, which played a huge role in the extraordinary campaigns of self-adulation that disfigured intellectual discourse towards the end of the millennium, going well beyond even historical precedents, which are ugly enough. Naturally, it is of extraordinary importance to the herd to protect that self-image, much of it based on deceit and fabrication. Therefore, any attempt even to bring up plain (undisputed, surely relevant) facts is either ignored (M-W can't be ignored), or sets off most impressive tantrums, slanders, fabrications and deceit, and the other standard reactions. Very easy to demonstrate, and by no means limited to these cases. Those without experience in critical analysis of conventional doctrine can be very seriously misled by the particular case of the Middle East(ME).
But recognizing that M-W took a courageous stand, which merits praise, we still have to ask how convincing their thesis is. Not very, in my opinion. I've reviewed elsewhere what the record (historical and documentary) seems to me to show about the main sources of US ME policy, in books and articles for the past 40 years, and can't try to repeat here. M-W make as good a case as one can, I suppose, for the power of the Lobby, but I don't think it provides any reason to modify what has always seemed to me a more plausible interpretation. Notice incidentally that what is at stake is a rather subtle matter: weighing the impact of several factors which (all agree) interact in determining state policy: in particular, (A) strategic-economic interests of concentrations of domestic power in the tight state-corporate linkage, and (B) the Lobby.
The M-W thesis is that (B) overwhelmingly predominates. To evaluate the thesis, we have to distinguish between two quite different matters, which they tend to conflate: (1) the alleged failures of US ME policy; (2) the role of The Lobby in bringing about these consequences. Insofar as the stands of the Lobby conform to (A), the two factors are very difficult to disentagle. And there is plenty of conformity.

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» RE: Chomsky on "The Israel Lobby" Posted by: Emerald_Dragon
» Dude, no. Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Chomsky on "The Israel Lobby" Posted by: stormchilde1975
Technically you are wrong too
Posted by: Dan Metcalf on Apr 4, 2006 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Semite is a VERY old term that applies to all persons decendant of Sem, the son of Noah. It doesn't mean Jewish or Arab, as those are subsets of this group.

I'll let the Online Etymology Dictionary speak for me...

Semite
1847, "Jew, Arab, Assyrian, Aramæan," from Mod.L. Semita, from L.L. Sem "Shem," one of the three sons of Noah (Gen. x:21-30), regarded as the ancestor of the Semites (in the days when anthropology was still bound by the Bible), from Heb. Shem. Semitic (1813 of languages, 1826 of persons) is probably from Ger. semitisch (first used by Ger. historian August Schlözer, 1781), denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited.

anti-Semitism
1881, from Ger. Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr in 1880, from anti- + Semite (q.v.). Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try H. Adler's Judaeophobia (1882).

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» RE: Technically you are wrong too Posted by: MyLeftFoot
If America really loved Israel, they'd EVACUATE it
Posted by: xbj on Apr 4, 2006 9:04 AM   
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If the American government TRULY loved Israel and the Israeli people (as anything more than a convenient 51st State military satellite in a hostile oil-producing region), it would:

1: SPEND THE TRILLIONS IT SPENDS ON UNWINNABLE WAR TO, INSTEAD, GET THE OIL INDUSTRY AND THE ENTIRE US OFF OIL AND ONTO HYDROGEN FUEL CELLS IMMEDIATELY.

2: Enlist the remaining troops in the Mideast to EVACUATE all the people of Israel AND their assets to the US WHICH WOULD, WITHOUT FAIL, END TERRORISM FOREVER. That's IF they REALLY wanted to end their moneyminting "war" on "terrorism", which is, BY DESIGN, an inept war but one helluva money-minting INDUSTRY designed to steal trillions from American taxpayers.

If America has room for millions of illegal aliens from Latin America, it CERTAINLY has room for the people of Israel IN ORDER TO END "ISLAMIC" TERRORISM forever, which would effectively no longer give a convenient cover to MILITARY-INDUSTRIAL-COMPLEX STATE-SPONSORED SELF-TARGETED TERRORISM.

Would the people of Israel immigrate freely to a better land? Would this really end terrorism? The answers, the rationale, and far more, are here:

The Answer to Peace

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» judenrein? Posted by: AdamBaum
Memetics & semetics, please read
Posted by: TorontoCanada on Apr 4, 2006 9:16 AM   
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I am facisnated by Memetics

According to my understanding of the topic, memes are to culture & information what genes are to biology.
Meaning memes (ideas, opinions, information, concepts, ect..) spread & mutate through our minds & our culture.
I have also heard that once a meme is adopted, it will find arguments to defend itself. This helps me to understand why we see so many people (Bush admin, Neo-cons, Bill O'reilly) making absurd arguments & grasping at straws to prove they are right. Once we adopt a position it is painfull to examine the posibility that we may be wrong. Its like trying to change a habit, its dificult to say the least & causes genuine stress to the host of the meme.
Which brings me to this article...
Being young & having analysed and rejected racism in my mind a very long time ago, (I have had a profound experience of all of us being the same deep down where it counts & I trust & believe in this experience)
Because of this experience & because I have friends of just about every ethnic background, I have no fear looking at what i see as the facts & I DO see a Jewish/Zionist elite with a great deal of influence/power, i DO see terrible injustices in Palestine, I see the West shunning a democratically elected government in Palestine... I see distortion of the facts by the media in the west, it's rather obvious if you are open to seeing it...
I have also read that in the not to distant past Jewish law viewed Jews as Superior to non-Jews, and even allowed a Jew to kill a non-Jew for minor offenses but not the other way around. I think those views would have an effect on the current mentality of a people, and i think there is probably a great deal of Hate, Racism & fanatical behaviour among Isrealis & Zionists even though media only talks about Arab Hate.
& I believe it makes sense that those who were victims of terrible atrocities will now repeat the cycle and do to others what was done to them, history repeats itself, the abused becomes the abuser, these cycles and paterns always continue, we see this clearly in our society & it makes sense from my understanding of memetics as well. It occurs to me that with one side vs. another side, neither side will change. I think that understanding the processes that lead to this hate is the only way to escape from it.

May some interesting chats come from this post..
: )

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» isnt that the beauty of memetics Posted by: TorontoCanada
» codingGuy Posted by: TorontoCanada
» RE: codingGuy Posted by: cold2touch
It's not the "Israel Lobby," it's U.S. Imperialism
Posted by: zunes on Apr 4, 2006 9:20 AM   
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A number of people who strenuously oppose U.S. support for the Israeli occupation (not just Noam Chomsky) have raised serious questions about Mearsheimer and Walt's methodology and assumptions. Mearsheimer and Walt are prominent figures of the realist school of international relations and, with some rare exceptions, were strident defenders of U.S. foreign policy during the Cold War and subsequently. They clearly have an agenda aimed at absolving from responsibility the foreign policy establishment they have served so loyally all these years and finding a convenient scapegoat for our disastrous Middle East policy.

Was an Indonesian-American lobby responsible for U.S. support for a quarter century of brutal occupation of East Timor? Is a Moroccan-American lobby responsible for U.S. support for the ongoing occupation of Western Sahara?
The unfortunate reality is that our country is perfectly capable of supporting right-wing allies to invade, repress and colonize weaker neighbors without an ethnic minority somehow forcing our hand to do so. To claim otherwise is to assume that without the pro-Israel lobby, the U.S. would be supportive of international law and human rights in our Middle East policy. Given that the U.S. foreign policy has rarely ever been particularly supportive of international law and human rights anywhere else, why should the Middle East be different?

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Turn off your TV's
Posted by: shinyfish on Apr 4, 2006 9:22 AM   
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More conditioning. Turn off your TV's, put down the gossip papers and think for yourselves.

Terrorists are created by other terrorists, who have no idea they are terrorsists. They see their parents,siblings and neighbors killed and circle starts again. Or, they see their perceived way of life theatened ( Oh no! My gas just cost escalated).

This article is another trap. The first comment, a recitation of historical gossip/data. Not a personal experience.

WAKE UP!!!

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» RE: Turn off your TV's Posted by: codingguy
» RE: Turn off your TV's Posted by: TorontoCanada
Turn off your TV's
Posted by: shinyfish on Apr 4, 2006 9:23 AM   
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