COMMENTS: 90
Pentagon Holds Thousands of Americans 'Prisoners of War'
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest A Soldier Speaks headlines via email.
He was not, however, going to talk about the three soldiers listed as missing in action on the Department of Defense website. He was referring to those who have been the victims of stop-loss, the device by which the president can, "in the event of war," choose to extend an enlistee's contract "until six months after the war ends." The "War on Terror" is this president's excuse for invoking that clause. Because that war will, by definition, continue as long as we insist that there is a difference between the terror inflicted on our innocents and the terror inflicted on theirs, American soldiers are effectively signing away their freedom indefinitely when they join the military. They are prisoners of an ill-defined and undeclared war on a tactic -- terrorism -- that dates back to Biblical times and will be with us indefinitely.
According to U.S. News and World Report, there are at least 60,000 of them.
"I was a great soldier once upon a time," Goldsmith says. He graduated at the top of his class in basic training and was on the commandant's list in the Warrior Leadership Course with a 94.6 percent average. He aced every test, mental and physical, received commendations and medals and promotions, but by the end of his first deployment he knew he was in serious trouble. His CSM (command sergeant major) Altman, however, had told his battalion, "If any of you go try to say you're depressed and thinking about killing yourself, you're going to get deployed anyway, and when we get there, you'll get to be my personal I.E.D. (improvised explosive device) kicker!" So he self-medicated; he drank. A lot. "All I wanted to do was black out."
What kept him going was the end that was in sight. He just had to hang on till his contract was up, and then he could go home, go back to school, and finally be a 20-year-old kid. Then days before he was scheduled to get out, his unit was locked down, stop-lossed as part of the surge. He was looking at another 18-month deployment.
At first he thought he was having a heart attack. It turned out to be a panic attack. He was diagnosed with depression, anxiety disorder and adjustment disorder, given a lot of pills and told he'd be fine. Or at least fine enough to go back.
The day before his unit was to deploy, Memorial Day 2007, he went out onto the memorial field at Ft. Stewart, where trees are planted for every soldier from 3rd Infantry Division killed in Iraq. He mixed pills and vodka, and tried to die.
He woke up handcuffed to a gurney and spent a week in a mental ward. His commanding officer tried to rip off his stripes and threatened to prosecute him for malingering, a court martial offense: He had tried to kill a U.S. Army soldier. Ultimately, he was given two Article 15s (nonjudicial punishment), one for malingering and one for missing movement (not deploying on time) and separated from the service with a general discharge stamped in big letters: "misconduct: serious offense." Under a general discharge, he lost all his educational benefits.
Sgt. Goldsmith's story is not necessarily more devastating than others I heard over the course of the four-day gathering. There were many that were told with equal courage and clarity, and that were equally revealing of important issues. But at some point as I listened to him speak, I realized that I was no longer listening as a journalist, I was listening as a mother. In 1971, the original Winter Soldiers were my age. This new generation are my children's. And this young soldier framed everything he had to say with a mother's worst nightmare: the death of a child.
The first picture Goldsmith showed was of a 10-year-old boy in "cammies," with dog tags on a chain around his neck, proudly offering his best boy scout salute. "That boy died in Iraq, " he says.
Another picture flashed on the screen, this time of a young soldier in real military camouflage, leaning out of a jeep and flashing a shit-eating boyish grin. It was a good day, the first day of his deployment to Iraq in 2005. That boy, too, Goldsmith told us, is dead.
Three years after that picture was taken, Sgt. Goldsmith doesn't look any older. In fact, sitting on the speakers' platform between two big Marines, he almost looks fragile. Even the Mohawk haircut doesn't come off as particularly tough. He may be fragile, but there is nothing, absolutely nothing fragile about what he has to say. Or the way he says it.
Goldsmith is from Bellmore, Long Island. On Sept. 11, 2001, he could see the smoke from the towers from his home. Like many Americans, he wanted to join the military to protect his country. He signed on as a forward observer, perhaps the most dangerous position on the battlefield.
In Iraq, he was stationed in Sadr City, one of the poorest and angriest of Baghdad's neighborhoods. Electricity was available for only 2-4 hours a day, sewage contaminated the water system, and the outside temperature often topped 130 degrees. American soldiers were charged with enforcing a curfew that kept locals locked inside their homes, away from the coffee shops or the rooftops or their neighbors' yards, for the only cool hours of the day.
Essentially rendering 3.2 million Iraqis prisoners of war. Goldsmith was among the prisoners guarding other prisoners.
Among the stories Goldsmith told was one about a little boy on a rooftop with a stick, pretending it was an AK47. He was yelling down at the Americans, angry, acting tough and posturing defiantly. Goldsmith trained his weapon on the kid and almost fired. Something made him stop, but when he told the story last weekend, you could hear the disbelief in his voice: "I almost took out a 6-year-old boy. I almost killed someone's son."
When a mass grave was discovered, he was ordered to take pictures of the dead. One after another, horrific images of death in partial decay went up on the screen. "Every one of these pictures is burned into my mind," he says. "I could draw them." And he remembers the flies. The flies had no particular preference for the living or the dead. They were "landing on the corpses ... And then they would land on my lips. They would land on my eyes. They would crawl up my nose. And I felt so violated and emotionally raped." It did not help to know that those images, ostensibly for identification purposes, were never shared with Iraqis hoping to find a missing loved one. They were trophies for a few armchair warriors who used them to "boost morale," to prove that Americans were really kicking haji butt. But for Goldsmith, the horror is indelible. It will never go away.
When they wanted him to go back for more, he despaired and tried to kill the 21-year-old he had become. Nothing made sense anymore.
I find it so painfully ironic that as other excuses for the war have been proven false, (weapons of mass destruction, U.N. sanctions, ties to Al-Queda, etc.) the administration has fallen back on the most unbelievable of all: freedom. While George Bush insists that Iraqis accept freedom, American style, one out of every 100 of our own citizens are in prison. Almost twice as many as the runner-up, China. Iraq is 62 on the list, though it is unclear whether that includes those being held by Americans. In this country, there are 2,258,983 in prison. That figure does not include the 723,000 locked up in local jails. Or the 60,000 stop-lossed soldiers.
Pentagon studies have shown that each deployment leaves a soldier 60 percent more likely to suffer serious mental health problems. In support of that, as this president sends soldiers back into combat as many as five times in as many years, the U.S. Army Medical Command Suicide Prevention Action Plan acknowledges that suicides among active-duty soldiers in 2007 were up 20 percent from 2006, their highest level since the Army began keeping such records in 1980. And the number of suicide attempts has increased sixfold since the Iraq war began. There were several in the I-30 Infantry Battalion, and Goldsmith holds his sergeant major responsible. Like Goldsmith, these young soldiers are being told not only that they are prisoners, but that they are disposable. They are our children, and their deaths are on the hands of those who hold their freedom hostage.
Congress could put an end to this.
Stay up to date with the latest A Soldier Speaks headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Richard House on Mar 26, 2008 12:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Today’s volunteer Army is far differant than it once was
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Today’s volunteer Army is far differant than it once was
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Obijuan on Mar 26, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someday, these guys will be home again. And when they are, I hope they are still strong enough to lead their country back to the light.
My heart breaks every time I read a story like this. America is really being destroyed before our eyes. When you couple this with the massive bailouts of companies and bank that should simply go out of business for bad business practices, it is obvious that America is doomed. Yet I am just a liberal pussy crying about what I don't understand, right?
Revolution is the only answer. We need to get mean and rough with those who have it coming. We need to start eliminating the causes of our woes directly, like a cancer in need of cutting out. Brave citizens, with nothing to lose, need to start taking these people out one by one. Suicide doesn't correct what has been done, but other actions might....
Don't worry, the media won't cover it anyway.
obi
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: Anon12
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: Dixongeo
» It's mutiny - but the answer is redress. If enough in the military
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: donl51
» The 60s virus
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Meaningful change
Posted by: MplsVala
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 26, 2008 3:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: aharlib
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: donnee
» RE: All nice comments
Posted by: donl51
» It's not going to happen, ever
Posted by: truthteller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Mar 26, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can they stand in front of the TV cameras with a straight face and pretend to support the troops!
The human toll of this war has reached catastrophic proportions. And the news media, and therefore the public, is largely oblivious.
Am I living in a bad B movie?
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Mar 26, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The key phrase is: In such conditions, MUTINY is not only moral, but legal and perhaps a duty, even perhaps by your army manuals, and certainly by your constitution standarts.. so, when your comanding officer do such things to you, shoot him instead of shooting yourselves.
If your commander-in-chief is the main criminal, and the democratic institutions are too corrupt to try and imprison him, then convert mutiny into revolution, while you still have the weapons in hand, and shoot him too.
What else can one say?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why killing yourself
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dgleason on Mar 26, 2008 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
linked text
it is long since time that we need legislation about stop loss. If we are going to participate in these 'logical wars' like 'war on terror' there has to be clear law that protects the volunteer soldier. The bush administration has been able to continue this because they have not been forced to bring up the issue of conscription. While I am not fond of the draft, if we are drafting, in effect there is no excuse for not drafting everyone's child, not just the one's that volunteer.
We really need to do something about the Bushies breaking our military in every conceivable way.
Danielle
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: technocrat on Mar 26, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing changes. As long as reverence for strength and domination prevails over dialogue and mutual benefit, and the military industry constitutes such a significant segment of corporate profits, don't look for any relief. As economic conditions deteriorate, and the social system breaks down, the sheeple will clamor for protection from their destitute neighbors. And the military, whether in the form of mercenaries or local cops simply wanting to hold on to their incomes, will step up and start bashing heads. The nightly home invasions by the police state now being carried out in Iraq will become routine in the U.S.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kamcguffin on Mar 26, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» Danielle,ome more research on your part can't hurt
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Danielle,ome more research on your part can't hurt
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eksommer on Mar 26, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My answer is to enlist all young people into military service after high school, perhaps not all for combat, but service of some kind. This would force adults to wake and take action when their children might be put in harm's way for all the wrong reasons. Voters of all ages would suddenly have a vested interest in making sure that if this country fights a war, it is vital to our survival as a nation and not on the ill-informed whim of a moron who calls himself president. So who has read The Forever War or Ender's Game?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Dig deeper Cibershamen
Posted by: donl51
» RE: And so Cybershaman what are we doing?,in ''this''day and age
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: QCao009 on Mar 26, 2008 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PakiBoy on Mar 26, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does this nation goes about supporting politicians that launch one illegal invasion after the other?
Do you guys not know about the atrocities in Vietnam? Your support for war-criminals must be intentional.
No wonder Issane McCain has a real chance of winning the White House!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: American response to Bush's illegal war was to reward him with a 2nd term
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» No good deed goes unpunished.
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Sincere quetion - Why do a majority of College educated white male
Posted by: PakiBoy
» RE: Sincere quetion - Why do a majority of College educated white male
Posted by: somekindausername
» They dont vote republican, ignor these polling scams.
Posted by: yale
» Bush's 2nd Inauguration live coverage was interesting
Posted by: mcubed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: antiapathy on Mar 26, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Congress could put an end to this???? Indeed
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: John Annis on Mar 26, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What makes this doubly ironic is the fact that the US has not seen an aggressor's foot on its land for almost 200 years.
The natural outcome of all this, coupled with the political suicide that a draft would entail, is that more and more is required of those who have already enlisted. Plus the recruiters are paying bigger and bigger enlistment bonuses, and increasingly to riffraff who couldn't get a job flipping burgers.
You live by the sword, you die by the sword. RIP.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why the surprise?
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Why the emphasis on a minor point... because you're a TROLL
Posted by: DaBear
» Toll? funny I didn't get that at all!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Why the surprise?
Posted by: Crazy H
» Pearl Harbour and the Aleutians - actually stolen land
Posted by: Rod from Canada
» RE: Why the surprise? because you're talking about the world's idiots
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Why the surprise? because you're talking about the world's idiots
Posted by: John Annis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ohjin on Mar 26, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Parents teach children that ALL killers are ALL sick individuals, then children will no longer become trained killers, they won't be sacrificed any more as MILITARY power for insane leaders.
No more trained killers, re-introduced into society after we are "done" with them as Trained Killers, would also prevent them from being left to their own private hell(s) for the rest of their lives.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Trained Killers
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NamVeT on Mar 26, 2008 8:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uniform love their country more than their comfort. They have never failed
us, and we must not fail them. But the best intentions and the highest
morale are undermined by back-to-back deployments, poor pay, shortages
of spare parts and equipment, and rapidly declining readiness."
"...these are signs of a military in decline and we must do something
about it. The reasons are clear. Lack of equipment and material.
Undermaning of units. Overdeployment. Not enough time for family. Soldiers who
are on food stamps, and soldiers who are poorly housed. Dick Cheney
and I have a simple message today for our men and women in uniform, their
parents, their loved ones, their supporters: Help is on the way!"
"A generation shaped by Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam.
When America uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal
must be clear, and the victory must be overwhelming."
"To build morale in today's United States military we must keep faith
with those who have worn the uniform in the past. We must keep faith
with America's veterans. . .And keeping faith also means giving our
veterans first-rate health care and treating the veterans with dignity. . .So
chaotic is the process there is now a backlog of nearly one
half-million claims. This is no way to treat any citizen, much less a veteran of
our armed forces. The veterans health-care system and the claims
process will be modernized, so that claims are handled in a fair and friendly
way."
"In my Administration, the Department of Veterans Affairs will act as
an advocate for veterans seeking benefit claims, not act as an
adversary. Veterans who once stood in the line of fire to protect our freedom
should not have to stand in the line of a bureaucracy that is unwilling
to help them in their claims."
---George W. Bush VFW Speech - August 21, 2000
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» I can't tell the difference between a liar and a salesman.
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnJlws on Mar 26, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton's recent lie about being under sniper fire was simply more confirming evidence of my disdain for her and Bill's "win at all cost" campaign that I dubbed "fear and smear lite." Clever, eh?
I had pretty much vowed not to support her if she prevails somehow as the nominee.
However, stories like this demonstrate why we must, all of us, get behind, full throttle, the democratic candidate. He may choose Reverend Wright or Louis Farrakhan as his VP and she'll probably lie about every other time she opens her mouth, but if we don't go democratic we have years and years and years left of this garbage in Iraq.
We knew well before we withdrew that it was time to declare victory in Vietnam and head for home; the time has long since passed in Iraq as well. And, I hope it's Obama I'm voting and working for, but if not, I'm going to work and support Clinton. And I'm going to work as hard for whomever the democratic candidate is even if they (I'm a republican) draft a gerbil.
Thanks to the author for the clarifying why no matter who, it cannot be McCain.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This is Appropriate How??
Posted by: Andie927
» RE: This is Appropriate How??
Posted by: JohnJlws
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Andie927 on Mar 26, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's most recent statement about 'ending the war' is that it'll happen during his "First Term" yea, right!!
Country Before Party***Go Green (Party)***
What about the Permanent Bases? What about the Vatican Sized Embassey?? How about stopping the use of our military to protect "Overseas Corportate Interests", not OUR National Defense??
The term 'War' should be redefined, as only as in Declared War's, Voted on and Approved by Congress! (and it should require a super-majority vote) No 'War time Powers' without it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 26, 2008 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh McNutcase is giving his War is Good Speech..!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Reader11722 on Mar 26, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Impeach them all and save this great country.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Mar 26, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aonghus36 on Mar 26, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Mar 26, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time someone gives a rich asshole a pass, an act of treason has been committed. True a congress of plumbers and laborers would probably have launched a nookyuhler war against just about everyone, but when it failed, a congress of workers--people who intimately know from consequences and costs--would have had the common sense to admit it and change their ways. Not so with rich entitled wastes-of-skin. The rich overprivileged brats posing as politicians in DC will never admit they were wrong and they're always the first ones to want to get violent.
The owning class deserves neither privilege nor mercy. Enough of this shit. As long as you trust one rich prick you are asking for trouble.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Since even a guy living under a bridge owns something,
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Mar 26, 2008 12:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but morally repugnant giving the Executive Branch "CIC" unlimited powers...
perhaps the US Military should Unionize...
their are working other country models to base this on...
what I am suggesting "IS" radical but the current executive policy of "Stop-loss" with soldiers that have done there duty, [on a concept war] is a radical approach as well...
It's long past due that the US military recognize that service in its Military is a privilege and honor and should be treated in that matter, if a soldier has done completed his commitment [tour] then he should be allowed to leave with honor at anytime with a written request [resignation]... afterall i wouldnt really want to be in theatre with a person who really doesnt want to be there... people like that will be a hazard to moral, life and limb of all...
time for a "TRUE" all volunteer force...
and stop the current farcical all voluntold force!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on Mar 26, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can cry all we want about this, but these are the consequences of war. Until we change our car culture and consumerism, we will need the military to support our lifestyles and our incessant baby boom.
These young men knew the possibility of this when they enlisted. We liberals can cry about this and demand that Bush or whomever goes to jail, while we live it up in LA, Scottsdale, Minneapolis, Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
We are always blaming the leaders. Why not look in the mirror.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Oh one more thing, you get a 1
Posted by: yale
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gaubladt on Mar 26, 2008 5:50 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, 50,000 americans were killed in Vietnam because the war machine had an endless supply of human meat to devour for it's glorious adventures. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that it won't happen again.
What we have here now is a situation where people are, in effect, voting against the war by not enlisting. We just need a law that mandates ending a war when nobody volunteers.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Fraud Guy on Mar 26, 2008 7:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The president carries the biggest burden, obviously. He’s the one who has to make the decision to commit young Americans, but we are fortunate to have a group of men and women, the all-volunteer force, who voluntarily put on the uniform and go in harm’s way for the rest of us."
If they are forced to stay in the armed forces, are they still considered "volunteers"?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fonn on Mar 26, 2008 8:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: modeler on Mar 27, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: whealeydj on Mar 30, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HarryStottle on Mar 31, 2008 5:26 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what we need is a campaign to send a copy of that documentary (about the military rebellion against the war in Vietnam) to every serving member of the US Military. That'll cause a panic driven response or two...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Richard House on Mar 26, 2008 12:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Today’s volunteer Army is far differant than it once was
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Today’s volunteer Army is far differant than it once was
Posted by: Cybershaman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Obijuan on Mar 26, 2008 1:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someday, these guys will be home again. And when they are, I hope they are still strong enough to lead their country back to the light.
My heart breaks every time I read a story like this. America is really being destroyed before our eyes. When you couple this with the massive bailouts of companies and bank that should simply go out of business for bad business practices, it is obvious that America is doomed. Yet I am just a liberal pussy crying about what I don't understand, right?
Revolution is the only answer. We need to get mean and rough with those who have it coming. We need to start eliminating the causes of our woes directly, like a cancer in need of cutting out. Brave citizens, with nothing to lose, need to start taking these people out one by one. Suicide doesn't correct what has been done, but other actions might....
Don't worry, the media won't cover it anyway.
obi
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: Anon12
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: Dixongeo
» It's mutiny - but the answer is redress. If enough in the military
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Mutany?
Posted by: donl51
» The 60s virus
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Meaningful change
Posted by: MplsVala
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 26, 2008 3:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Direct Democracy
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: aharlib
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: douglashoyt
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Terrorist
Posted by: donnee
» RE: All nice comments
Posted by: donl51
» It's not going to happen, ever
Posted by: truthteller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Mar 26, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can they stand in front of the TV cameras with a straight face and pretend to support the troops!
The human toll of this war has reached catastrophic proportions. And the news media, and therefore the public, is largely oblivious.
Am I living in a bad B movie?
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Mar 26, 2008 4:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The key phrase is: In such conditions, MUTINY is not only moral, but legal and perhaps a duty, even perhaps by your army manuals, and certainly by your constitution standarts.. so, when your comanding officer do such things to you, shoot him instead of shooting yourselves.
If your commander-in-chief is the main criminal, and the democratic institutions are too corrupt to try and imprison him, then convert mutiny into revolution, while you still have the weapons in hand, and shoot him too.
What else can one say?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why killing yourself
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dgleason on Mar 26, 2008 4:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
linked text
it is long since time that we need legislation about stop loss. If we are going to participate in these 'logical wars' like 'war on terror' there has to be clear law that protects the volunteer soldier. The bush administration has been able to continue this because they have not been forced to bring up the issue of conscription. While I am not fond of the draft, if we are drafting, in effect there is no excuse for not drafting everyone's child, not just the one's that volunteer.
We really need to do something about the Bushies breaking our military in every conceivable way.
Danielle
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: technocrat on Mar 26, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing changes. As long as reverence for strength and domination prevails over dialogue and mutual benefit, and the military industry constitutes such a significant segment of corporate profits, don't look for any relief. As economic conditions deteriorate, and the social system breaks down, the sheeple will clamor for protection from their destitute neighbors. And the military, whether in the form of mercenaries or local cops simply wanting to hold on to their incomes, will step up and start bashing heads. The nightly home invasions by the police state now being carried out in Iraq will become routine in the U.S.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kamcguffin on Mar 26, 2008 5:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» Danielle,ome more research on your part can't hurt
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Danielle,ome more research on your part can't hurt
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: Finally, thank you for bringing this up
Posted by: dgleason
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eksommer on Mar 26, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My answer is to enlist all young people into military service after high school, perhaps not all for combat, but service of some kind. This would force adults to wake and take action when their children might be put in harm's way for all the wrong reasons. Voters of all ages would suddenly have a vested interest in making sure that if this country fights a war, it is vital to our survival as a nation and not on the ill-informed whim of a moron who calls himself president. So who has read The Forever War or Ender's Game?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: donl51
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: dgleason
» RE: And so what are we doing?
Posted by: Cybershaman
» Dig deeper Cibershamen
Posted by: donl51
» RE: And so Cybershaman what are we doing?,in ''this''day and age
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: QCao009 on Mar 26, 2008 5:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PakiBoy on Mar 26, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does this nation goes about supporting politicians that launch one illegal invasion after the other?
Do you guys not know about the atrocities in Vietnam? Your support for war-criminals must be intentional.
No wonder Issane McCain has a real chance of winning the White House!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: American response to Bush's illegal war was to reward him with a 2nd term
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» No good deed goes unpunished.
Posted by: Artkansas
» RE: Sincere quetion - Why do a majority of College educated white male
Posted by: PakiBoy
» RE: Sincere quetion - Why do a majority of College educated white male
Posted by: somekindausername
» They dont vote republican, ignor these polling scams.
Posted by: yale
» Bush's 2nd Inauguration live coverage was interesting
Posted by: mcubed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: antiapathy on Mar 26, 2008 6:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Congress could put an end to this???? Indeed
Posted by: DaBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: John Annis on Mar 26, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What makes this doubly ironic is the fact that the US has not seen an aggressor's foot on its land for almost 200 years.
The natural outcome of all this, coupled with the political suicide that a draft would entail, is that more and more is required of those who have already enlisted. Plus the recruiters are paying bigger and bigger enlistment bonuses, and increasingly to riffraff who couldn't get a job flipping burgers.
You live by the sword, you die by the sword. RIP.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why the surprise?
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Why the emphasis on a minor point... because you're a TROLL
Posted by: DaBear
» Toll? funny I didn't get that at all!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Why the surprise?
Posted by: Crazy H
» Pearl Harbour and the Aleutians - actually stolen land
Posted by: Rod from Canada
» RE: Why the surprise? because you're talking about the world's idiots
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Why the surprise? because you're talking about the world's idiots
Posted by: John Annis
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ohjin on Mar 26, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When Parents teach children that ALL killers are ALL sick individuals, then children will no longer become trained killers, they won't be sacrificed any more as MILITARY power for insane leaders.
No more trained killers, re-introduced into society after we are "done" with them as Trained Killers, would also prevent them from being left to their own private hell(s) for the rest of their lives.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Trained Killers
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NamVeT on Mar 26, 2008 8:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uniform love their country more than their comfort. They have never failed
us, and we must not fail them. But the best intentions and the highest
morale are undermined by back-to-back deployments, poor pay, shortages
of spare parts and equipment, and rapidly declining readiness."
"...these are signs of a military in decline and we must do something
about it. The reasons are clear. Lack of equipment and material.
Undermaning of units. Overdeployment. Not enough time for family. Soldiers who
are on food stamps, and soldiers who are poorly housed. Dick Cheney
and I have a simple message today for our men and women in uniform, their
parents, their loved ones, their supporters: Help is on the way!"
"A generation shaped by Vietnam must remember the lessons of Vietnam.
When America uses force in the world, the cause must be just, the goal
must be clear, and the victory must be overwhelming."
"To build morale in today's United States military we must keep faith
with those who have worn the uniform in the past. We must keep faith
with America's veterans. . .And keeping faith also means giving our
veterans first-rate health care and treating the veterans with dignity. . .So
chaotic is the process there is now a backlog of nearly one
half-million claims. This is no way to treat any citizen, much less a veteran of
our armed forces. The veterans health-care system and the claims
process will be modernized, so that claims are handled in a fair and friendly
way."
"In my Administration, the Department of Veterans Affairs will act as
an advocate for veterans seeking benefit claims, not act as an
adversary. Veterans who once stood in the line of fire to protect our freedom
should not have to stand in the line of a bureaucracy that is unwilling
to help them in their claims."
---George W. Bush VFW Speech - August 21, 2000
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» I can't tell the difference between a liar and a salesman.
Posted by: Sojourner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JohnJlws on Mar 26, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clinton's recent lie about being under sniper fire was simply more confirming evidence of my disdain for her and Bill's "win at all cost" campaign that I dubbed "fear and smear lite." Clever, eh?
I had pretty much vowed not to support her if she prevails somehow as the nominee.
However, stories like this demonstrate why we must, all of us, get behind, full throttle, the democratic candidate. He may choose Reverend Wright or Louis Farrakhan as his VP and she'll probably lie about every other time she opens her mouth, but if we don't go democratic we have years and years and years left of this garbage in Iraq.
We knew well before we withdrew that it was time to declare victory in Vietnam and head for home; the time has long since passed in Iraq as well. And, I hope it's Obama I'm voting and working for, but if not, I'm going to work and support Clinton. And I'm going to work as hard for whomever the democratic candidate is even if they (I'm a republican) draft a gerbil.
Thanks to the author for the clarifying why no matter who, it cannot be McCain.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This is Appropriate How??
Posted by: Andie927
» RE: This is Appropriate How??
Posted by: JohnJlws
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Andie927 on Mar 26, 2008 9:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama's most recent statement about 'ending the war' is that it'll happen during his "First Term" yea, right!!
Country Before Party***Go Green (Party)***
What about the Permanent Bases? What about the Vatican Sized Embassey?? How about stopping the use of our military to protect "Overseas Corportate Interests", not OUR National Defense??
The term 'War' should be redefined, as only as in Declared War's, Voted on and Approved by Congress! (and it should require a super-majority vote) No 'War time Powers' without it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Mar 26, 2008 9:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh McNutcase is giving his War is Good Speech..!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Reader11722 on Mar 26, 2008 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They violate the 1st Amendment by opening mail, caging demonstrators and banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon.
They violate the 2nd Amendment by confiscating guns during Katrina.
They violate the 4th Amendment by conducting warrant-less wiretaps.
They violate the 5th and 6th Amendment by suspending habeas corpus.
They violate the 8th Amendment by torturing.
They violate the entire Constitution by starting 2 illegal wars based on lies and on behalf of a foriegn gov't.
Impeach them all and save this great country.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Mar 26, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aonghus36 on Mar 26, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: DaBear on Mar 26, 2008 11:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time someone gives a rich asshole a pass, an act of treason has been committed. True a congress of plumbers and laborers would probably have launched a nookyuhler war against just about everyone, but when it failed, a congress of workers--people who intimately know from consequences and costs--would have had the common sense to admit it and change their ways. Not so with rich entitled wastes-of-skin. The rich overprivileged brats posing as politicians in DC will never admit they were wrong and they're always the first ones to want to get violent.
The owning class deserves neither privilege nor mercy. Enough of this shit. As long as you trust one rich prick you are asking for trouble.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Since even a guy living under a bridge owns something,
Posted by: chief of okeefe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on Mar 26, 2008 12:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but morally repugnant giving the Executive Branch "CIC" unlimited powers...
perhaps the US Military should Unionize...
their are working other country models to base this on...
what I am suggesting "IS" radical but the current executive policy of "Stop-loss" with soldiers that have done there duty, [on a concept war] is a radical approach as well...
It's long past due that the US military recognize that service in its Military is a privilege and honor and should be treated in that matter, if a soldier has done completed his commitment [tour] then he should be allowed to leave with honor at anytime with a written request [resignation]... afterall i wouldnt really want to be in theatre with a person who really doesnt want to be there... people like that will be a hazard to moral, life and limb of all...
time for a "TRUE" all volunteer force...
and stop the current farcical all voluntold force!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on Mar 26, 2008 1:31 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can cry all we want about this, but these are the consequences of war. Until we change our car culture and consumerism, we will need the military to support our lifestyles and our incessant baby boom.
These young men knew the possibility of this when they enlisted. We liberals can cry about this and demand that Bush or whomever goes to jail, while we live it up in LA, Scottsdale, Minneapolis, Atlanta, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
We are always blaming the leaders. Why not look in the mirror.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Oh one more thing, you get a 1
Posted by: yale
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gaubladt on Mar 26, 2008 5:50 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, 50,000 americans were killed in Vietnam because the war machine had an endless supply of human meat to devour for it's glorious adventures. Don't fool yourselves into thinking that it won't happen again.
What we have here now is a situation where people are, in effect, voting against the war by not enlisting. We just need a law that mandates ending a war when nobody volunteers.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Fraud Guy on Mar 26, 2008 7:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The president carries the biggest burden, obviously. He’s the one who has to make the decision to commit young Americans, but we are fortunate to have a group of men and women, the all-volunteer force, who voluntarily put on the uniform and go in harm’s way for the rest of us."
If they are forced to stay in the armed forces, are they still considered "volunteers"?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fonn on Mar 26, 2008 8:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: modeler on Mar 27, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: whealeydj on Mar 30, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HarryStottle on Mar 31, 2008 5:26 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what we need is a campaign to send a copy of that documentary (about the military rebellion against the war in Vietnam) to every serving member of the US Military. That'll cause a panic driven response or two...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]




