COMMENTS: 39
AlterNet Editorial: Iraq Vets Will Detail U.S. Atrocities in Winter Soldier Hearings
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They'll be following large footsteps. In the early months of 1971, a group of Vietnam vets, organized by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), gave two days of testimony about the Vietnam that they had seen, up close and all-too-personally, in the original "Winter Soldier" investigation. While largely dismissed by the political establishment, their wrenching testimony redoubled the peace movement's efforts to end that war.
In his opening statement 37 years ago, William Crandell, a 26 year-old lieutenant who served in the 199th Light Infantry Brigade, Americal Division -- the division that committed the infamous My Lai Massacre -- told the hushed room, "The Winter Soldier Investigation is not a mock trial. There will be no phony indictments; there will be no verdict against Uncle Sam." He promised "straightforward testimony -- direct testimony -- about acts which are war crimes under international law. Acts which these men have seen and participated in. Acts which are the inexorable result of national policy."
And they did just that. Over two days, more than a 100 vets of the Vietnam conflict bore witness to the horrors that they had seen with their own eyes -- "the inexorable result of national policy." One panel examined the question, "What are we doing to Vietnam?" and another asked "What are we doing to ourselves?"
The media largely ignored the hearings. The East Coast papers, with the exception of a New York Times article a week after the event, refused to even cover them. The VVAW complained of an "official censorship blackout."
That was before the right had built its formidable echo chamber -- before Fox News, the Washington Times, the New York Sun and the emergence of the right-wing blogosphere, with its instinctive attacks on any who question the morality of the "war on terror." It's difficult to imagine the kind of character assassinations the soldiers who gather in Washington this week will face from the war's supporters, but it's likely that they're going to redefine courage and genuine patriotism in the face of withering criticism.
But the progressive community is also better prepared to push back against those attacks this time around. A robust alternative media, of which AlterNet is proud to play a role, will at least allow this new generation of Winter Soldiers to be heard. You can get involved as well by supporting IVAW, by tuning in to the proceedings live via the internet, satellite TV and select Pacifica Radio stations, or you can organize an event to view the testimony with others in your community.
All week, AlterNet will feature special coverage of the hearings. Each day leading up to the event, we'll be posting some of the transcripts from the 1971 event. You can read Lt. Crandell's opening statement and testimony from members of the First Marine Division, and we'll post more as the week progresses. We'll also take a look back at the impact the original hearings had on the anti-war movement and on the larger debates of the day.
Several members of the AlterNet team will be in Washington this weekend, and we'll bring you the sights and sounds and in-depth coverage that the commercial media won't.
Stay up to date with the latest A Soldier Speaks headlines via email
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Posted by: walldodger1969 on Mar 11, 2008 4:25 AM
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Posted by: saltoafronteira on Mar 11, 2008 4:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have military training, and you are skilled on the use of weapons and warfare techniques.....
You have identified the real enemy....
Have you read the constitution ?
Save it !
Save your people !
Save your country !
Save the world !
By doing that, you will be saving your dignity and, ultimately, your souls.
Have you got the guts?
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» RE: One must not fear the shadow valley of death, nor prison for sedition appealing....
Posted by: lynned2002
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Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 11, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jrmart on Mar 11, 2008 6:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the young soldier indicated that there were no insurgents in Falluja, he does little justice to his fallen comrades. To whom does he attribute the American casulties? Children and old ladies?
That there was a vicious battle for Falluja is uncontested. That hundreds perhaps thousands of civilians were maimed and killed is uncontested. Is this soldier saying that it was He and his buddies that did that?
To me this is incredible.
When the other soldier says that he has seen no building going on, perhaps he should get out more. It is uncontested that our government has built dozens of new schools; hospitals and plants. I may believe that we shouldn't have destroyed them in the first place, but the buildings are there!
I am disheartend by this video as I think that it will just be too easy to discredit. Perhaps I have just seen the wrong part, but it is the part that IVAW has chosen to show.
I have opposed this military action just as i opposed the Vietnam military action. I fought against the lie of the Gulf of Tonkin and of WMDs. I want our soldiers HOME. But this old veteran has doubts
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» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» US aerial bombardment of Fallujah killed thousands
Posted by: sarahk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odcherenow on Mar 11, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And he was vilified for his courage and morality by a reprehensible sham, a crass political take-down.
What is going on in this Warrior Nation?
Now another generation of men and women are coming forth to tell us of the horror of war.
How many times do we have to hear this??
It's time for a woman president to clean house in this. our flailing nation. And may God protect her and us in that.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Wasn't this what John Kerry got 'Swiftboated' 4 doing?
Posted by: Jayzer
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Posted by: debjbaba on Mar 11, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: solrev on Mar 11, 2008 8:48 AM
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Posted by: badkitty on Mar 11, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: happyhermit
» RE: where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: batteredup
Comments are closed-
Posted by: STORMY78 on Mar 11, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE NEED A WOMAN PRESIDENT TO STOP ALL OF THESE ATROCITIES AGAINST HUMANS AND NATURE.
WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER EGOTIST LIKE OBAMA, WHO WILL BE CONVINCED WAR MAKES PEACE. WE NEED HILLARY CLINTON TO BREAK THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: batteredup
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: kabac55
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bar5608 on Mar 11, 2008 10:02 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That might not help Hillary, but it would sure help the Deomcratic Party, and may put Obama in the Whitehouse, where he can go about saving the World from the arrogance of power.
If he and Hillary keep sniping at each other, they may put MacCain in the White house, and the World in even deeper do-do.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Mr.
Posted by: willymack
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 11, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 11, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GeorgiaBlue on Mar 11, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: saltoafronteira
» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: saltoafronteira
» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mclemens on Mar 11, 2008 12:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Glen, a 21-year-old soldier of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, wrote a letter to General Creighton Abrams, the new overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, accusing the Americal Division (and other entire units of the U.S. military) of routine and pervasive brutality against Vietnamese civilians. The letter was detailed and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers.
Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report Powell wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Powell's handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as "whitewashing" the atrocities of My Lai. . .
The carnage at My Lai might have gone unknown to history if not for another soldier, Ron Ridenhour, a former member of Charlie Company, who, independently of Glen, sent a letter detailing the events at My Lai to President Richard M. Nixon, the Pentagon, the State Department, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and numerous members of Congress. The copies of this letter were sent in March 1969, a full year after the event. Most recipients of Ridenhour's letter ignored it, with the notable exception of Congressman Morris Udall (D-Arizona). Ridenhour learned about the events at My Lai secondhand, by talking to members of Charlie Company while he was still enlisted.
It is rare when I’m able to approvingly cite any conservative’s viewpoint, but I can't help but to recall Edmund Burke: “The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.” Or one might be better served today from the following 1993 quote from Ridenhour, who took part in Stanley Milgram's famous Obedience to Authority experiments, also from Wikipedia:
"Some people -- most, it seems -- will, under some circumstances, do anything someone in authority tells them to.... Government institutions, like most humans, have a reflexive reaction to the exposure of internal corruption and wrongdoing: No matter how transparent the effort, their first response is to lie, conceal and cover up. Also like human beings, once an institution has embraced a particular lie in support of a particular coverup, it will forever proclaim its innocence."
Anyone interested in the documentary of the first 1971 Winter Soldier testimony can find information about it here:
linked text
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Posted by: txbodhi on Mar 11, 2008 5:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: poulsenjosh on Mar 11, 2008 8:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A soldier’s cry
They said I was to bring peace
But I only saw war
They said I would bring delight to others
But I only saw horror
They said I should be proud
But I only felt ashamed
They said the world was in trouble
But they never said from whom
They said that I would be taken care of when I got home
But they forgot me
They said we will always be here for you
But they left me
They said that I should go home
But they never told me how
They said thank you
But they never showed it
Joshua Poulsen
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kster on Mar 12, 2008 12:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter where you want to lob your criticism, there is no shortage of scandal, safe for a lack of responsibility. However, where have all our journalists gone - where is the outrage, the indignation, the sheer bone-curling anger that would push one to unrelent with a line of questioning ? I am uninterested in the line of reasoning first given, then re-stated, then changed again to conform to the facts on the ground by this administration. Do the multiple resignations and retirements point to something sinister ? I cannot confirm this without the work of qualified journalists - where are the Seymour Hirsch's of our era ? (There are some, but I wish to read more of them and see them on newscasts, not like the same cavalcade of idiots that got it all wrong multiple times now on our tubes - Perle, Kristol, etc) Tabloid garbage is all the mainstream media is good to provide us with these days it seems. Celebrities that get paid because of our ignorance and lack of curiosity. "Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." - Thoreau.
I cannot think of a better time than now to bring our principles back, reclaim our government, throw out the corrupt politicians in DC that are living fat off our dime, recall the troops for a much needed rest, close many worldwide military bases around the world, invest in peace through education of our children and those of others, melt many guns, eliminate the idiom of washington and that of the unitary executive with a directness that most politicians (lawyers) are unable to provide, and once and for all, speak power to the trials that we face as a nation...
I say to mr. Bush what Ghandi told us long ago: "Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes." Stop lying to me. I've seen the pictures, I've read the stories, I've seen the movies. Much like the companies of today that refuse to appear on a newscast/documentary because they have done something, although not legally proven in court yet, that is considered wrong by most of us through the simple tool of common sense, please tell us the mistakes were made, we could at least begin to construct something from the ashes that you continue to agonize with the fire of your misdeeds.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The Rule of Law in this *supposed* time of terror
Posted by: kentigereyes@yahoo.com
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Posted by: Doggycuny on Mar 12, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: There are no attrocities
Posted by: poulsenjosh
» RE: There are no attrocities
Posted by: poulsenjosh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hunterseeker on Mar 17, 2008 4:49 AM
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Posted by: walldodger1969 on Mar 11, 2008 4:25 AM
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Posted by: saltoafronteira on Mar 11, 2008 4:48 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have military training, and you are skilled on the use of weapons and warfare techniques.....
You have identified the real enemy....
Have you read the constitution ?
Save it !
Save your people !
Save your country !
Save the world !
By doing that, you will be saving your dignity and, ultimately, your souls.
Have you got the guts?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: One must not fear the shadow valley of death, nor prison for sedition appealing....
Posted by: lynned2002
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HeKnew on Mar 11, 2008 4:51 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: jrmart on Mar 11, 2008 6:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the young soldier indicated that there were no insurgents in Falluja, he does little justice to his fallen comrades. To whom does he attribute the American casulties? Children and old ladies?
That there was a vicious battle for Falluja is uncontested. That hundreds perhaps thousands of civilians were maimed and killed is uncontested. Is this soldier saying that it was He and his buddies that did that?
To me this is incredible.
When the other soldier says that he has seen no building going on, perhaps he should get out more. It is uncontested that our government has built dozens of new schools; hospitals and plants. I may believe that we shouldn't have destroyed them in the first place, but the buildings are there!
I am disheartend by this video as I think that it will just be too easy to discredit. Perhaps I have just seen the wrong part, but it is the part that IVAW has chosen to show.
I have opposed this military action just as i opposed the Vietnam military action. I fought against the lie of the Gulf of Tonkin and of WMDs. I want our soldiers HOME. But this old veteran has doubts
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I have doubts
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» US aerial bombardment of Fallujah killed thousands
Posted by: sarahk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odcherenow on Mar 11, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And he was vilified for his courage and morality by a reprehensible sham, a crass political take-down.
What is going on in this Warrior Nation?
Now another generation of men and women are coming forth to tell us of the horror of war.
How many times do we have to hear this??
It's time for a woman president to clean house in this. our flailing nation. And may God protect her and us in that.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Wasn't this what John Kerry got 'Swiftboated' 4 doing?
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: debjbaba on Mar 11, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: solrev on Mar 11, 2008 8:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: badkitty on Mar 11, 2008 9:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: happyhermit
» RE: where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: where did you fight in vietnam?
Posted by: batteredup
Comments are closed-
Posted by: STORMY78 on Mar 11, 2008 9:33 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WE NEED A WOMAN PRESIDENT TO STOP ALL OF THESE ATROCITIES AGAINST HUMANS AND NATURE.
WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER EGOTIST LIKE OBAMA, WHO WILL BE CONVINCED WAR MAKES PEACE. WE NEED HILLARY CLINTON TO BREAK THE CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: armorypk
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: batteredup
» RE: stormy7
Posted by: kabac55
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bar5608 on Mar 11, 2008 10:02 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That might not help Hillary, but it would sure help the Deomcratic Party, and may put Obama in the Whitehouse, where he can go about saving the World from the arrogance of power.
If he and Hillary keep sniping at each other, they may put MacCain in the White house, and the World in even deeper do-do.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Mr.
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Mar 11, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 11, 2008 10:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GeorgiaBlue on Mar 11, 2008 11:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: saltoafronteira
» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: saltoafronteira
» RE: Women will prevail
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mclemens on Mar 11, 2008 12:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Glen, a 21-year-old soldier of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade, wrote a letter to General Creighton Abrams, the new overall commander of U.S. forces in Vietnam, accusing the Americal Division (and other entire units of the U.S. military) of routine and pervasive brutality against Vietnamese civilians. The letter was detailed and its contents echoed complaints received from other soldiers.
Colin Powell, then a 31-year-old Army Major, was charged with investigating the letter, which did not specifically reference My Lai (Glen had limited knowledge of the events there). In his report Powell wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between American soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." Powell's handling of the assignment was later characterized by some observers as "whitewashing" the atrocities of My Lai. . .
The carnage at My Lai might have gone unknown to history if not for another soldier, Ron Ridenhour, a former member of Charlie Company, who, independently of Glen, sent a letter detailing the events at My Lai to President Richard M. Nixon, the Pentagon, the State Department, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and numerous members of Congress. The copies of this letter were sent in March 1969, a full year after the event. Most recipients of Ridenhour's letter ignored it, with the notable exception of Congressman Morris Udall (D-Arizona). Ridenhour learned about the events at My Lai secondhand, by talking to members of Charlie Company while he was still enlisted.
It is rare when I’m able to approvingly cite any conservative’s viewpoint, but I can't help but to recall Edmund Burke: “The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing.” Or one might be better served today from the following 1993 quote from Ridenhour, who took part in Stanley Milgram's famous Obedience to Authority experiments, also from Wikipedia:
"Some people -- most, it seems -- will, under some circumstances, do anything someone in authority tells them to.... Government institutions, like most humans, have a reflexive reaction to the exposure of internal corruption and wrongdoing: No matter how transparent the effort, their first response is to lie, conceal and cover up. Also like human beings, once an institution has embraced a particular lie in support of a particular coverup, it will forever proclaim its innocence."
Anyone interested in the documentary of the first 1971 Winter Soldier testimony can find information about it here:
linked text
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: txbodhi on Mar 11, 2008 5:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: poulsenjosh on Mar 11, 2008 8:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A soldier’s cry
They said I was to bring peace
But I only saw war
They said I would bring delight to others
But I only saw horror
They said I should be proud
But I only felt ashamed
They said the world was in trouble
But they never said from whom
They said that I would be taken care of when I got home
But they forgot me
They said we will always be here for you
But they left me
They said that I should go home
But they never told me how
They said thank you
But they never showed it
Joshua Poulsen
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kster on Mar 12, 2008 12:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No matter where you want to lob your criticism, there is no shortage of scandal, safe for a lack of responsibility. However, where have all our journalists gone - where is the outrage, the indignation, the sheer bone-curling anger that would push one to unrelent with a line of questioning ? I am uninterested in the line of reasoning first given, then re-stated, then changed again to conform to the facts on the ground by this administration. Do the multiple resignations and retirements point to something sinister ? I cannot confirm this without the work of qualified journalists - where are the Seymour Hirsch's of our era ? (There are some, but I wish to read more of them and see them on newscasts, not like the same cavalcade of idiots that got it all wrong multiple times now on our tubes - Perle, Kristol, etc) Tabloid garbage is all the mainstream media is good to provide us with these days it seems. Celebrities that get paid because of our ignorance and lack of curiosity. "Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it." - Thoreau.
I cannot think of a better time than now to bring our principles back, reclaim our government, throw out the corrupt politicians in DC that are living fat off our dime, recall the troops for a much needed rest, close many worldwide military bases around the world, invest in peace through education of our children and those of others, melt many guns, eliminate the idiom of washington and that of the unitary executive with a directness that most politicians (lawyers) are unable to provide, and once and for all, speak power to the trials that we face as a nation...
I say to mr. Bush what Ghandi told us long ago: "Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes." Stop lying to me. I've seen the pictures, I've read the stories, I've seen the movies. Much like the companies of today that refuse to appear on a newscast/documentary because they have done something, although not legally proven in court yet, that is considered wrong by most of us through the simple tool of common sense, please tell us the mistakes were made, we could at least begin to construct something from the ashes that you continue to agonize with the fire of your misdeeds.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The Rule of Law in this *supposed* time of terror
Posted by: kentigereyes@yahoo.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Doggycuny on Mar 12, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: There are no attrocities
Posted by: poulsenjosh
» RE: There are no attrocities
Posted by: poulsenjosh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Hunterseeker on Mar 17, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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