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War on Iraq

The Evangelical Christian Takeover of the Military

By David Antoon, Truthdig. Posted November 16, 2007.


Retired Air Force Col. David Antoon investigates proselytizing within the military, where religious ideology threatens to supersede the values of the Constitution.

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"I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.  ..."

--Oath of Office

"Our mission is to educate, train, and inspire men and women to become officers of character motivated to lead the United States Air Force in service to our nation."

--Air Force Academy mission statement

"We will not lie, steal, or cheat. ..."

--Air Force Academy honor code

"Military professionals must remember that religious choice is a matter of individual conscience. Professionals, and especially commanders, must not take it upon themselves to change or coercively influence the religious views of subordinates."

--Religious Toleration (Air Force Code of Ethics, 1997)

Forty-two years ago, at the age of 18, I took the oath of office on my first day as an Air Force Academy cadet.  The mission of the academy was not only to train future leaders for the Air Force but for America as well, because, in the end, most academy graduates do not serve full military careers.  The honor code became an integral part of everyday life.  These are the values that I, and most graduates of the 1960s and early '70s, took with us from our four years at the academy.

I, as did many graduates, underwent pilot training followed by tours of duty in Vietnam. Like military men and women of today, we did our best to become technically competent and professional leaders.  Never, during my four years at the academy and subsequent pilot and combat training, was the word warrior used; nor, whether as a cadet or officer, did I ever encounter "Christian supremacist" rhetoric.

In April of 2004, my son, after receiving a coveted appointment to the United States Air Force Academy, asked me to accompany him to the orientation for new appointees.  This 24-hour visceral event changed my life forever, and crushed my son's lifelong dream of following in my footsteps.

The orientation began with a one-hour "warrior" rant to appointees and parents by the commandant of cadets, Brig. Gen. Johnny Weida.  The fact that the word warrior had replaced leadership was a signal of what was to follow.  I later learned that cadets, to determine when a new record was established, had created a game in which warrior was counted in each speech Weida gave.


My son and I then made our way to the modernist aluminum chapel, where I expected to hear a welcome from one or two Air Force chaplains offering counsel, support and an open-door policy for any spiritual or pastoral needs of these future cadets.  In 1966, the academy had six gray-haired chaplains: three mainline Protestants, two priests and one rabbi.  Any cadet, regardless of religious affiliation, was welcome to see any one of these chaplains, who were reminiscent of Father Francis Mulcahy of "MASH" fame. 

Instead, my son's orientation became an opportunity for the academy to aggressively proselytize this next crop of cadets.  Maj. Warren Watties led a group of 10 young, exclusively evangelical chaplains who stood shoulder to shoulder.  He proudly stated that half of the cadets attended Bible studies on Monday nights in the dormitories and he hoped to increase this number from those in his audience who were about to join their ranks.  This "invitation" was followed with hallelujahs and amens by the evangelical clergy.  I later learned from Air Force Academy chaplain MeLinda Morton, a Lutheran who was forced to observe from the choir loft, that no priest, rabbi or mainline Protestant had been permitted to participate. 

I no longer recognize the Air Force Academy as the institution I attended almost four decades earlier.  At that point, I had no idea how invasive this extreme evangelical "cancer" had become throughout the entire military, that what I had witnessed was far from an isolated case of a few religious zealots.

In order to better understand this shift to a religious ideology at this once secular institution, I called the Academy Association of Graduates (AOG).  Its response:  "We don't get involved in policy." What I didn't know was that the AOG, like the academy, had affiliations with James Dobson's and Ted Haggard's powerful mega-churches.  When Dobson's Focus on the Family "campus" was completed, the academy skydiving team, with great ceremony, delivered the "keys from heaven" to Dobson.  During some alumni reunions, the AOG arranged bus tours of Focus on the Family facilities in nearby Colorado Springs, Colo.  I also learned that the same Monday night Bible studies discussed at orientation were taught by bused-in members of these evangelical mega-churches and that some spouses of senior academy staff members were employed by these same religious institutions.  It seemed that my beloved United States Air Force Academy had morphed into the Rocky Mountain Bible College.


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Clarification
Posted by: El Hombre Malo on Nov 16, 2007 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excelent article on a subject that both fascinates and terrifies me. But I'd like to read verification on one point; when Antoon mentions COO Schmitz, another Naval Academy graduate, is a member of the Order of Malta, a Christian supremacist organization dating back to the Crusades... is he really refering to the historical Order or to one of the fringe groups that appropiate the name, as its wiki entry says?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Malta

I've known of the existence of the order since... allways. Many spanish public figures (I am spanish) hold knighthood and I believe the order has ties with the spanish monarchy. I believed it had lost its political dimension long time ago and devoted to charity and healthcare (the full name beign Sovereign Military Hospitaller Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, of Rhodes and of Malta and beign founders of Hospitals and hospices around the world). Sure, its interlinked with aristocratic power and that equals to conservadurism, but I never saw the Order as little else but an eccentric remmant worth to be preserved if only fo its aestetic value.

Moreso... as perverse the catholic hierarchy is, I find the connection to evangelist extremism odd, to ay the least. Arent evangelist equaling catholicism with satanism day after day?

Can anyone clarify this for me?

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A True Christian: Sarah Rachel Thomson
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 16, 2007 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sarah Rachel is a young woman from red state Alabama with a very blue state perspective and yet so much more. She is a true Christian who strives daily to live her life as Christ would have. Discovering her blog quite by accident a couple of moths ago was a a wonderous moment indeed! Her thoughts on not only religion but politics and life in general can only be described as life affirming. Have a look at it, folks. She is outstanding! Here's a link:

Lie Down and Sleep

Cheers!

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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Beware of those who use the Bible as the final authority
Posted by: Lector on Nov 16, 2007 2:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The existence of a flying spaghetti monster would have been just as feasible if the Bible had declared it as a truth. By now most of the world knows that Rice and Bush are neo-crusaders and hostile to Muslims as well as most of our military; Bush and Rice have not publicly stated it but it’s obvious as well as the growing hysteria of even the traditional Christian fundamentalists as they prepare for the clash of civilizations; christianitytoday.com always has articles that relate to the war between Islam and Christianity. These useful idiots are the tools which will eventually help to create a world of masters and slaves. Since our military’s majority is comprised mostly of Christians in a nation of which 90% profess to believe in God it shouldn’t be a surprise this has happened. It was inevitable.

My god can beat up your god. Christian supremacist fascism versus Islamic fundamentalism. Pretexts for tyranny. This isn’t just about religion and crusading against Islam or Islamist extremists, it’s about acquiring power as well. The essence of Christianity or Christ, (as long as it is not interfered with by organized anal-retentive church leaders who believe they can dictate how you must live your life), is beautiful and mostly humble and altruistic, which these deluded religious fanatics are not. To me evangelical Christians, neo-crusaders, Christian supremacists, are the essence of evil, if there is such a thing. Predators might be a better description. Organized religion, the way it’s becoming, is the source of all ignorance and death. Those who would wish to practice their religions peaceably will become extinct if these predators are not put in their place once and for all. I threw my air medal away; America and its military no longer has anything to do with ethics and honor. All evangelicals want to do is change the world according to how they see it. How delusional. It’s a good argument against religion.

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» Jesus Christ...a military weapon Posted by: psychochurch
» RE: Jesus Christ...a military weapon Posted by: psychochurch
A History Class Discussion
Posted by: itsthemedication on Nov 16, 2007 3:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oddly, I am taking a history class where we were discussing Nazi Germany and the Nazi approach to religion, which was a type of nationalist Christian belief (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism#Religion). Notice the parallel with the evangelical "warrior" movement. Excellent and chilling post. What our present day "warriors" seem to have glossed over, is one of the strengths of the Roman Empire, syncretism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism). Think how Iraq might have played out if we had gone in with a philosophy of syncretism versus that of the crusader. Bandying about the term Islamofacist is not making us any friends, and is reminiscent of schoolyard taunts.

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» RE: A History Class Discussion Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: A History Class Discussion Posted by: talkville
» What drivel! Posted by: photon's feather
This is what happens
Posted by: walldodger1969 on Nov 16, 2007 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when we become a nation of "sheep".

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Get rid of the Air Force
Posted by: jsong123 on Nov 16, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Merge it with the Army. It is more like the "Air Farce", never knowing their place.

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» Location, location, location! Posted by: war_on_tara
Evangelicals Moving In To Provide Moral Cover For Wars of Aggression
Posted by: sofla100 on Nov 16, 2007 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At one time, if you were in the military, you perceived yourself and your country as only fighting for self-defense, or in the case of Vietnam and Korea, still in self-defense because of the "Communist Threat." However, today, especially after GW Bush and the Iraq WMD fiasco, the old moral authority and idealogy that previously supported when America went to war is gone. What justification remains now for the invasion, subsequent occupation and continued American casualties in Iraq? There is no justification, so, if the American military is going to retain an idealogical or moral belief system that supports there actions, it has to come from somewhere. Hence, the intrusion of the Evangelicals. In many ways the Evangelicals provide the perfect belief system and idealogical moral cover for endless wars and wars for strategic reasons. Especially when the wars are against a population of "non-Christians." The fact that Blackwater and the MERCS also support and embrace this belief/idealogical system simply shows that they are part of the team, and part of the Crusade. Lastly, of course, for America, when you no longer have the important moral authority that justified past wars and military actions (rather really justifiable or not, at least the idealogy could be stretched, which it cannot be for Iraq), and you have raw recruits, you have to pull in the moral authority and idealogical support and indoctrinate them. Otherwise, when they realize the truth, that the war in Iraq is just a war of aggression for the USA, they quickly become disillusioned and will not fight. Again, the Evangelical brainwashing works perfectly.

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25ghostcommander
Posted by: 25ghostcommander on Nov 16, 2007 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More background--Read "The 12 Year Reich" by Richard Grunberger and articles by Victor Klemperer. Google "the 14 points of Fascism" and "Fascism anyone" by Dr. Lawrence Britt. Read the famous poem by Martin Niemoeller, a German pastor in World War II: "First they came for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

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Thank you...
Posted by: buh on Nov 16, 2007 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....Mr. Antoon and Alternet for putting a lot of different "loose ends" that I've heard in various places together to give us a better overview of what must be the hidden agenda of the bush leadership team as it has seemingly infiltrated our military leadership with an "end times" philosophy. This is ingrained much deeper than I would have suspected, and it's going to take decades to neutralize this philosophy, but neutralization is vital because half or more of them could be focusing on armaggedon, as their "warrior" tag suggests.

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Snapshots Distort Big Picture
Posted by: jim_altman on Nov 16, 2007 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Military life is different from civilian life. Civilian life is about personal choices. Military life is about following orders. Historically, commanders and groups of soldiers have used every trick in the book to suppress the ego and to lead or follow without question. Some of those strategies can look pretty strange and scary to the casual observer. The stereotyped Drill Instructor at boot camp seems a blustering psychopath, but really cares for the survivability of his trainees. Not all DIs scream and holler like the movies, but they train young men and women to obey orders without question. Religion is as good a motivator as anything else.

Yet, while motivation gets you on the dance floor, it is not enough to finish the dance. Somebody's got to know how to lead, and if they stumble a lot and tromp all over your toes or twirl you into the orchestra pit, you'd rather sit the next one out. We're seeing more and more of that as those who lead don't seem to have a clue what they're up to.

Professional soldiering is almost another question entirely. For the professional soldier "improvise, adapt, and overcome" is a way of life. With every new commander-in-chief there's a new "gold standard." The Bush Administration couches a lot of its language in evangelical terms. So, if you want a really good promotion in George's Army, you'd better stop speaking the intellectual Clinton-ese and start learning evangelical Bible-Belt-ese. The idea that idiots like Pat Robertson are somehow directing our defense policy is grossly unfair to the thousands of faithful Americans who have chosen the military path to serve their country.

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Hey Jesus - lets make a deal OK?
Posted by: Illiteratilumen on Nov 16, 2007 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You promise to stay out of my schools, my government and my military and I promise I won't think in your church.

Sound good?

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RELIGION AND WAR
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 16, 2007 8:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our military is stretched thin and getting very tired. No replacements? What if we start aggressive recruiting tactics at all these mega-churches every Sunday. Instead of going to the schools in poor neighborhoods. A chance to serve your country and spread the word. Most of these young people are or will be educated and have NEVER been in trouble. They would make perfect soldiers. Thanks, ANNA

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Be Careful
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 16, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a former soldier I understand the military culture fairly well and this article passes the smell test. The BushCo loonies have been actively politicizing every corner of the government under their purview, and the uniformed services are obviously no exception.

The roots of this problem go back much farther than this and have been exacerbated by the drawdown following the fall of the Berlin Wall and end of the Cold War. After Gulf War I the Army was reduced to about half it's previous size, while the Navy and Air Force were reduced by better than 1/3rd. A lot of the evangelical loonies stayed when many others left and time has advanced them into positions of power and authority.

Tthe military is a culture that is designed to enforce conformity, loyalty, cohesion and obedience. Such an environment or culture is an easy target of this kind of subversion, which makes it all the more important to protect the secular nature of our armed forces. I did not use the military chaplains during my 8 years of active service because a military chaplain is a contradiction. Serving war, destruction and violence while preaching a message ostensibly of peace and forgiveness is too big a chasm for me to buy into.

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» RE: Be Careful Posted by: VZEQICVA
Jesus lived and died as a pacifist
Posted by: PaulK on Nov 16, 2007 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Roman soldiers and Herod were reviled because they killed a whole town full of little kids. Jesus may have been speaking of actual soldier suicides when he discussed those who harm little kids. Other military dictatorship atrocities included putting John the Baptist's head on a platter, and of course pages upon pages of details about torture and crucifixion.

Then there's "Love your enemy." Which part of the three words is hard to understand?

Jesus's comment on enlistment: "All who live by the sword surely will die by the sword."

From other historical documents, we know that all of the early Christians were pacifists. Jesus didn't come to lead an army. He was the "Prince of Peace". He taught nonviolent tactics. "If a soldier commands you to carry his pack one mile, carry it two miles."

You need to run the Bible through a food processor to get rid of its pacifist intent. Then you're left with a pile of little scraps of paper, and can say that you believe every word of it.

That's why it's so very hard to picture evangelical "Christianity" taking over the Air Force Academy.

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» Millstone around neck Posted by: PaulK
» RE: who's in foxholes? Posted by: photon's feather
the frightening thing is...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Nov 16, 2007 9:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that christians and the miliatry are both "on a mission"...

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30 Years Ago
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 16, 2007 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
30 years ago I entered the USMC. Just a year later I was stationed on Okinawa. There, the lost sheep in my section (I was in the Wing, thus was not in a platoon) were discovered by a group called PFAL. Power For Abundant Living. Little did I know at the time that they were one of several fundamentalist Christian groups that had infiltrated Camp Zukeran (which doesn't exist today) and were recruiting as many as they could to their little cult.

That was 30 years ago. THREE DECADES. This has been going on for a very long time.

What took people so long to realize that the military is run and staffed by a bunch of right wing Christians who want nothing more than Armageddon to come - preferably along with an attack by 105 recoilless guns - that they are manning?

Really. Is this any kind of a surprise to any of you out there who were also in the military?

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» RE: 30 Years Ago Posted by: Nidieux
Soverign Military Order of Malta
Posted by: nightgaunt on Nov 16, 2007 1:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the official Intelligence arm of the Vatican and they also don't care your affiliation when they make you a member. Imagine a former Nazi officer and a member of the OSS both getting inducted! It happened,Reinhardt Ghelen and Wild bBill Donovan got it. Many others did too, though I don't have a list.
Yes it is a Crusade. Bush made that plain early on in his speeches till he was told to tone it down. Just like in Atwood's "Handmaid's Tale" we are heading to a Fascist state similar to Nazi Germany in many aspects.

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From the article
Posted by: momly on Nov 16, 2007 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When he yelled "Airpower," the evangelical cadets in the know would respond "Rock, sir" in reference to the Bible story that Jesus built his house upon a rock.

What the hell....?

Jesus told a parable about two men who built houses; one on shifting sand that made the house collapse in a storm and the other on a bedrock which was able to withstand storms. Those who have ears, let them hear.

The other passage that came to mind is when Jesus told Peter that he was the "rock" on which he would build his church. Simon, the Jewish fisherman, became Peter, the "first pope" of the church.

Is this general that Biblically illiterate or did he simply conflate two stories?

Geez Louise.

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Answering the Coloner
Posted by: Johnboy on Nov 16, 2007 4:51 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Colonel Antoon's article sounds like a harbinger of the military version of the emorphous (but eubiquitous) "vast right-wing conspiracy." Gauging from the quotes from our founding fathers regarding the need for Christians in government, we've come full-circle--those who actually believe and practice their faith are at best suspect, and, at worst, subversive in the undermining of the Constitution.

There is a conundrum here--Evangelicals are being obedient to what they (myself included) believe to be biblical injunctions to "disciple all nations" and be "salt" and "light" in the world. When the authorities commanded Peter and the Apostles to stop speaking and teaching about Jesus (Acts 4:18) they kept it up anyway, saying they must "obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29). However, the same Bible says to be "subject to governing authorities" (Romans 13:1).

If some Evangelicals are overzealous (which may be in the eye of the beholder) and try to ram their beliefs down the gullets of subordinates, that is not only counter-productive, but violates the free will of the dissenters.

The "benevolent neutrality" the Supreme Court once mandated for laws affecting religion has more and more become "hostility toward religion." There should be a level playing field--no undue coercion, no undue hostility. The First Amendment has two clauses--establishment and free exercise--so it may be time to re-examine military policy (including at the Air Force Academy) to assure that the right to believe and the right to not believe are respected. Unfortunately, this article (e.g., "Christian Supremacists") seeks to demonize all Evangelicals with rhetoric that borders on histrionics. Not all Evangelicals (not even most) fit the extremist portrait the article paints. Please don't judge the value of the beliefs by the excesses of some; there are always good and bad examples of fellow-travellers in any group--secularists and atheists included (e.g., Mao, Stalin).

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evangelical "cancer"?
Posted by: chomsky on Nov 16, 2007 5:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For someone who claims to be all about religious tolerance, you clearly fail to demonstrate it. If your son shares such views, I'd have to say that it is clear that both father and son are unfit for the sort of Air Force you claim should exist, given the clear religious bigotry you demonstrate with that word choice.

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» RE: evangelical "cancer"? YES! Posted by: photon's feather
Impeach this Commander in Chief..for direct violation of the Establishment clause
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Nov 16, 2007 7:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an obscenity and a new low in our nations military history..!

There is nothing that would cause dissension amongst our ranks like these damn shit head Evangelist ministers and lunatic officers..!

Our Commander in Chief is directly responsible for this and his not acting immediately to end this unAmerican practice should in itself be grounds for Impeachment it is an outrage and direct violation of the Establishment clause or the worse kind and magnitude..

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theodora
Posted by: thekerry on Nov 16, 2007 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've followed this issue for a few months now and remember one researcher mentioning that the key military person overseeing the nuclear arsenal was part of this kabal, which made me wonder about the B-52 that "mistakenly transported" cruise missiles armed w/live nukes over parts of the US. This plane landed at the base in Barksdale (not sure which state), which is a launching ground for all things headed to the Iraq war. Major levels of protocol and chains of command were violated by this "mistake".
What really happened and why did they even let us plebians know?
Were the evangelicals thwarted in their armageddon moment?
Are there any other overt efforts in Congress, the courts, the military to thwart them some more?
I hope so 'cause this is truly fightening!!

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» Okay... Posted by: BTDT
» RE: Okay... Posted by: thekerry
» RE: Okay... That was some "accident"! Posted by: photon's feather
dmarshall
Posted by: dmarshall on Nov 16, 2007 9:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you.

People are just now starting to wake up to how big
this really is.

Many people are unable to think in abstraction and so
are unable to read "religious" works in a healthy
context, especially when they live in an environment of
fear. People without this ability have a *need* to
interpret things, like the Bible, in literal terms, it
is the only way they can, it's a condition of
mind/consciousness. They process their reality much
like children, they lack the ability to think critically
about issues that they become emotionally charge over

Some people have a remarkable ability to tap into this
weekness in others and use it to manipulate (such are
the Hitlers of the world). Many are victim themselves
of this mind set, they are the "true believers", other
are pure puppet masters.

Just as there is macro/micro economics there is
a analogous macro/micro psychology at work, a
"group mind" if you will.

There is a thoery in political science and mass
communication studies called the "spiral of silence"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_of_silence) that
applies to what is happening to our society today. This
is a very, very dangerous thing. It will NOT go away by
itself, if left unchallenged it will run it's course and
lead to the inevitable. Those of us who are able to
raise our consciousness to that of an "adult" need to
find some way to come together and counteract this
downward spiral.

While the lines of definition may fall along specific
"fault lines", like religion/Christianity don't be
fooled and fall into your own dogma and believe that
Christianity is the problem. Since these people are
Christian zeolot to attack them by attacking
Christianity will only make them stronger in their own
resolve.

While I do not consider myself a Christian I can see
that there are some great intellectual tools form that
philosophy to use. It is always true that your greatest
strength can be turned into your greatest weakness, and
vice-versa. You must learn to speak to people in their
own language (symbols) if you want to have an effect.
The Christ story and the implied message (the "real"
message, not the strick biblical/establishment message)
behind it, the message that gives it such power is the
exact opposite of what these people use.

The smartest, most efficient thing to do is learn to
converse with them in there own language. Don't argue
scripture and verse but rathre dialog from a heart of
compassion, understanding that most of these people are
operating out of their own deep fear. You can only
reach them by offering them somthing else and you can
not do that if they feel attacked for who they are.

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SOS
Posted by: Jbuuty on Nov 16, 2007 10:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same Old S***.

+ There are very legitimate concerns about 'Christian Supremacists' or 'dominionists'. These developments in the military should cause deep concern in all of us.

+ Then come the insults in the comment section. The way to solve religious intolerance is by insulting all people who believe in God, i.e., 90% of the world. It never ceases to amaze me that so many promote 'tolerance' through the use of intolerance.

+ Then we have the theological discussions about what is Christianity really like. Most Christians who comment on AlterNet, like myself, believe that Jesus was a pacifist and make an appeal to see the love and compassion and desire for real distributive justice as the core of the message. A few 'wingnuts' get on the site and promote the crusader understanding. And several 'leftnuts' demonstrate their 'tolerance' by calling us idiots.

+ Throughout we have the type of generalizations and essentialisms that Edward Said pointed out so brilliantly in "Orientalism', so that we learn that all Christians are like this, and 'missionaries are the worst' and so on and so forth.

+ And, of course, we finish without resolution as AlterNet goes on to the next issue. Then one concerning religion returns a week later and the same discussion reignites. It would certainly save time and energy if AlterNet simply copied the comments from any of these sort of articles at the bottom and closed the comments. It wouldn't take anything away from the discussion, since the comment section is generally like a bad re-run.

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» RE: SOS Posted by: fork
The Nature of Man
Posted by: bryangalt on Nov 17, 2007 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is an unfortunate fact that there will always be those people in society who feel that they are somehow superior to their fellow man,and the basis for this thought can be anything from skin color, sexual orientation, secular or religious beliefs.

It is also true that each side will throw the customary comments at each other, smug in their convictions that they have somehow scored a blow against their antagonist and earned a gold star from their Supreme Being, or whatever they believe in.

I am in the camp that believes this smug "holier than thou" attitude has been the source of greatest catastrophies in the history of humanity, and religion is not the only place where the blame must be laid.

The harsh truth of the matter is that we are all to blame for what is transpiring today. Every human being (I'll let the kids under 12 off from this decree) who turns their nose up at a homeless person, who talks about their brother like he's less of a man because he doesn't believe in Christ, or Mohammed, or Bhudda or the Dali Lama, or because he doesn't make $100,000 a month screwing over the little people, we are the problem.

Then, when we add into the mix the religious factions from around the world who believe ferverently in their points of view, we get supercharged assinine behavior. What makes anyone so sure that they are better than their neighbor and more importantly, what makes them so sure that their God will agree with their smug behavior?

If I recall correctly, after the Armeggedon event, when God's spaceship floats down from Heaven to settle on the burned out ruins of Jerusalum, only 144,000 humans are invited to enter the city of "New Jerusalem." That's about the same odds as hitting the lottery for a Christian I should think.

If man is to survive as a species (yes, as shocking as this will be to some, we are part of this natural world), we need to grow up and face up to the fact that if God (whoever or whatever you believe that to be) is as powerful as advertized, I sincerely doubt he would require us to blow each other up before he comes back for a visit. I sincerely doubt he needs any Christian Warriors or Muslim Jihadists to lend him a hand in cleaning up the riff-raff from the human pond.

The most ironic part of the whole situation is that this behavioral/belief disconnection that we are experiencing is further proof of evolution (bear with me)-clearly we are closer to that chimp than we realize, assuming we have that capacity to have a "realization" that our constant superiority complex is going to be our ticket to extinction. If we don't kill each other off with a plague, a nuke or some other means, global warming will happily do the trick.

Perhaps the lucky ones will get to die while driving their SUV's to the church of the Almighty Dollar, thus being preserved for all eternity in a symbol that so supports my thesis: "I'm better than you-I can drive a beast that pollutes your air, not mine cause I have a better job thanks to Jesus!"

Poor Jesus, I cannot imagine that he would be amused.

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Religion brought us George W. Bush
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 18, 2007 1:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion brought us George W. Bush, the
Iraq Oil War, the Republican War on Science, the Republican war
on social security and retirement, the Republican push for the
extinction of Homo Sapiens by means of global warming and on
and on. Religion is the relinquishment of rational thought. We
need a great deal of rational thought and Science to avoid our own
extinction. We need nuclear power to replace coal fired power
plants as the biggest and first wedge to cut CO2 production. If
we don't drastically cut CO2 production, we go extinct in about
200 years. We need nuclear weapons to defend our whole planet
from giant impacts of asteroids and comets, like the one that killed
the dinosaurs. Nuclear bombs are the only effective defense we
have at this time to protect our planet from giant impacts. Here's
hoping we don't have any more wars for a while, or any on-earth
uses for nuclear bombs.

"GWB claims personal divine council" found on
page 409 of the book: "Dominance by Design" by Michael
Adas 2006 who references: Tariq Ali "The Clash of
Fundamentalisms: Crusades, Jihads, and Modernity"
London: Verso, 2002
Reference: "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins,
2006: "George Walker Bush says "God" told him to invade
Iraq."
Reference: "The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice"
Roger A. MacKinnon, M.D., Robert Michels, M.D.
W. B. Saunders Co. 1971
Reference: "The Origin of Consciousness in the
Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes
Professor, Harvard University 1976
George Walker Bush says "God" told him to be president.
Translation: George Walker Bush had an hallucination of a
god telling him to be president. Having an hallucination
qualifies George Walker Bush for a clinical diagnosis of
Schizophrenia. George Walker Bush says "God" told him
to invade Iraq. Translation: George Walker Bush had an
hallucination of a god telling him to invade Iraq. George
Walker Bush is a chronic schizophrenic. We are at war in
Iraq because the president is mentally ill.

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Dick Cheny is a sociopath
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 18, 2007 1:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dick Cheny is a sociopath alias sciopath alias psychopath.
According to Wikipedia, psychopathy is currently defined.... as a
condition characterized by lack of empathy or conscience, and
poor impulse control or manipulative behaviors. The term is
often used interchangeably with sociopathy and antisocial
personality disorder......It is correlated with dissocial personality
disorder......Only a minority of diagnosable psychopaths are
violent offenders.... The manipulative skills of some of the others
are valued for providing audacious leadership. Some have argued
that psychopathy is adaptive in a highly competitive environment,
because it gets results for both the individual and the corporations
they represent. However, these individuals will often cause long-
term harm, both to their co-workers and the organization as a
whole, due their manipulative, deceitful, abusive, and often
fraudulent behaviour

Reference: "The Sociopath Next Door : the Ruthless Versus the
Rest of Us" by Martha Stout.
New York : Broadway Books, 2005.
Martha Stout says: "4% of all people are born
sociopaths/sciopaths/psychopaths." There is no cure. A written
test, the MMPI [Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory]
can identify sociopaths. The MMPI also identifies
schizophrenics and several other types of mental illnesses. The
MMPI is reliable to a good level of confidence. The MMPI
should be administered in high school along with the college
boards, or possibly to all high school students. Those with failing
grades on the MMPI should have a chance to receive medical
treatment. Psychiatry, Psychology and the MMPI had not been
invented by the time our Constitution was written. If they had,
the Constitution might have been different.
If sociopaths were identified, they could be kept out of politics.
The problem is that almost all politicians and CEOs may be
sociopaths given that 4% of all people are sociopaths. 4% is a lot
of people. The voters have a right to know the MMPI scores of
the candidates.

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Good books on religion:
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 18, 2007 1:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Neuropsychological bases of god beliefs" Dr. Michael A. Persinger
MD, psychiatrist 1987 "Religious people are just like my temporal lobe
patients"

"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind"
Julian Jaynes Professor, Harvard University 1976
"Religious people are just like schizophrenic patients"

"The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice" Roger A. MacKinnon,
M.D., Robert Michels, M.D. W. B. Saunders Co. 1971
"Religiosity is a common symptom [of] schizophrenic patients"

"The God delusion" by Richard Dawkins. "Religion is caused by a kind
of computer virus that infects the living computer, the human brain."

"The Science of Good and Evil" by Michael Shermer, 2004
"Morality and Ethics are now in the jurisdiction of Science and greatly
improved thereby."

"God: The Failed Hypothesis" byVictor Stenger Scientific proof that god
does not exist.

"The Accidental Mind" by David J. Linden, 2007. No INTELLIGENT
designer could have had anything to do with such a klugey brain.

"Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism" edited by Petto &
Godfrey, 2007. The ID and creationist crowd are trying to do away with science.
They see science as a "godless religion." The creationists are wrong. Science is a
method, not a religion.

Other authors: Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens

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The "human" brain is so badly "designed" insanity is normal
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 18, 2007 2:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Accidental Mind" by David J. Linden, 2007 Belknap Press of Harvard
University Press. Religion is caused by the extreme klugeyness of the "designed"
by evolution brain. In particular, the narrative creation system cannot be turned
off. It generates false narratives that are believed by the generating person. This is
seen in experiments done in the laboratory. This book has the best explanation of
resistance to evolution: "There has also been an assumption that if one accepts the
idea that life developed without divine intervention, it necessarily follows that all
aspects of religious thought must be rejected. Those who take this line of
argument to extremes argue that when religious thought is rejected moral and
social codes will degenerate and "the law of the jungle" will be all that is left. It is
imagined by religious fundamentalists that those who do not share their particular
religious faith are incapable of leading moral lives." These suppositions are not
true many times over. Linden later mentions that the creationists [intelligent
design advocates] are exactly 180 degrees wrong rather than just a little wrong.
Being exactly wrong, they are unable to unlearn their error. See Sociobiology or
Sciobio.

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ALL religions are nonsense and they are all about the same
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Nov 18, 2007 2:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to know the TRUTH about life, the universe, humanity or anything
else, your only real choice is to go to college and get a degree in science. If you
want to know where the universe came from, you will need a post doctoral degree
in physics. If you want to know how mankind originated, get a degree in biology.
If you want to know about morals and ethics, study sociobiology. Science is a
method, NOT a religion.

As a sophomore undergraduate student in Physics, your homework may include
figuring out when the second coming would be required, assuming that the bible
was 100% true in the year zero. That is, when would the bible be down to 50%
true? The popular and professors' answer in 1965 was the year 500. The true
answer: A friend of mine was born and raised in Budapest, Hungary. As an adult,
he came here and stayed. After 25 years, he visited his home town of Budapest.
He was unable to communicate with his high school classmates because the
Hungarian language had changed so much. The correct answer is less than 25
years. The first gospel was not written down until 50 years after the alleged
events and then in a different language. The people who told the story were at
about the same level of civilization as "wild Indians", I mean Native Americans
before Columbus got here. We have all played or seen played the game called
"Telephone" in which a story is passed down a line of re-tellers. By the Sixth re-
telling, the story has no resemblance to the original. The gospel story had to have
been re-told at least 6 times before it was mis-translated the first time. [Note that
whoever wrote it down the first time was free to write whatever he wanted to.
The storytellers were illiterate and unable to check his written text by reading it.
Besides that, he wrote in Greek rather than Aramaic.] Conclusion: There is no
truth anywhere in the bible, and there never was.

ALL of the jurisdictions that were formerly in the jurisdiction of religion have
been taken over by Science. There is no longer a need to debate t