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War on Iraq

Iraq Comes Home: Soldiers Share the Devastating Tales of War

By Emily DePrang, Texas Observer. Posted July 4, 2007.


Three veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan share the nightmare experiences that war has brought into their lives.

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Editor's Note: This powerful article was missed by a lot of readers last week, so we're reposting it to get the attention it deserves.

Statistics are one way to tell the story of the approximately 1.4 million servicemen and women who've been to Iraq and Afghanistan. According to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2004, 86 percent of soldiers in Iraq reported knowing someone who was seriously injured or killed there. Some 77 percent reported shooting at the enemy; 75 percent reported seeing women or children in imminent peril and being unable to help. Fifty-one percent reported handling or uncovering human remains; 28 percent were responsible for the death of a noncombatant. One in five Iraq veterans return home seriously impaired by post-traumatic stress disorder.

Words are another way. Below are the stories of three veterans of this war, told in their voices, edited for flow and efficiency but otherwise unchanged. They bear out the statistics and suggest that even those who are not diagnosably impaired return burdened by experiences they can neither forget nor integrate into their postwar lives. They speak of the inadequacy of what the military calls reintegration counseling, of the immediacy of their worst memories, of their helplessness in battle, of the struggle to rejoin a society that seems unwilling or unable to comprehend the price of their service. Strangers to one another and to me, they nevertheless tried, sometimes through tears, to communicate what the intensity of an ambiguous war has done to them.

One veteran, Sue Randolph, put it this way: "People walk up to me and say, 'Thank you for your service.' And I know they mean well, but I want to ask, 'Do you know what you're thanking me for?'" She, Rocky, and Michael Goss offer their stories here in the hope that citizens will begin to know.

***

Michael Goss, 29, served two tours in Iraq. He grew up in Corpus Christi and returned there after his other-than-honorable discharge. He lives with his brother. He is divorced and sees his children every other weekend while working the graveyard shift as a bail bondsman. He is quietly intelligent, thoughtful and attentive, always saying "ma'am" and opening the door for people. He struggles with severe PTSD and is obsessed with learning about the insurgency by studying reports and videos online. He is awaiting treatment from the Veterans Administration. He has been waiting for over a year.

Michael Goss:

I gave the Army seven years. It was supposed to be my career. I did two tours in Iraq, in 2003 and 2005. But during the last one, I started to get depressed. I lost faith in my chain of command. I became known as a rogue NCO. That's how I got my other-than-honorable discharge.

One night they said to me, "Sgt. Goss, gather your best guys." I say, "Where we going?" They say, "Don't worry about it, just come on." So we get in the car and go. We drive three blocks away, and there's six dead soldiers on the ground. They say, "You're casualty collecting tonight." I'm not prepared for that. I wasn't taught how to do that. But you're there. So you pick them up, and you put them in a body bag, pieces by pieces, and you go back to your unit, and you stand inside your room. And they're like, "You're going on a patrol, come on." You're like, "Hang on a minute. Let me think about what I just did here." I just put six American guys in damn body bags. Nobody's prepared for that. Nobody's prepared for that thing to blow up on the side of the road. You're talking, and you're driving, and then something blows up, and the next thing you know, two of your guys are missing their faces. They just want you to get up the next day and go, go, let's do it again, you're a soldier. Yeah, I got the soldier part, OK?

It gets to the point where they numb you. They numb you to death. They numb you to anything. You come back, and it starts coming back to you slowly. Now you gotta figure out a way to deal with it. In Iraq you had a way to deal with it, because they kept pushing you back out there. Keep pushing you back out into the streets. Go, go, go. Hey, I just shot four people today. Yeah, and in about four hours you're going to go back out, and you'll probably shoot six more. So let's go. Just deal with it. We'll fix it when we get back. That's basically what they're telling you. We'll fix it all when we get back. We'll get your head right and everything when we get back to the States. I'm sorry, it's not like that. It's not supposed to be like that. All the soldiers have post-traumatic stress disorder, and they're like, "Hey, you're good. You went to counseling four times, you can go back to Iraq. It's OK." No. It doesn't work that way.


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Emily DePrang is a writer from Pearland, Texas.

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View:
Would you want me to write something
Posted by: Captainmagic on Jul 4, 2007 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Positive.......when did they draft you against your will, to go forth and butcher.....maybe it was the first time maybe it was the last....ordinary people doing very ordinary things are what is called the american army......very good at most things except combat...lots and lots of oh wow ,holy shiite firepower...but not combat..(sort of like using a fire hose to douse a wall of twenty gallon buckets of gas that are on fire and then wondering why your surrounded by fire)..or should that be Napalm.....Napalm has got a nice ring to it hasn't it ...sort of sounds/smells like ..oh I don't know ..."Victory"....

Then you get to go home and get discarded by the Gov't...joining an american army is just the most insane thing that can be done...why would you do it...you buy into it, you break it, you own it, sorry it does not come with any warranty...

Sorry about the rant but in my army there has always been and will always be a rule of engagement practice and it does not involve emptying every mag in the box at 'something' to my front.

You guy's may be the lucky one's....if this ramshackle of an army gets to blister into Iran it's going to get it's arse well and truly stitched up.

Captain OUT

Go ahead "Fire mission battery"

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» RE: WWII for example Posted by: Edward George
» RE: WWII for example.....agreed Posted by: Captainmagic
The wrong war
Posted by: mizipi on Jul 4, 2007 4:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a war needed in a country that needs FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY. The country: United States of America. We need a nonviolent revolution to ensure that all men have basic human rights and liberty.

Enjoyed this article, but sympathize for the three people. In 1974, I enlisted into the military. Not one person spoke to me about the Vietnam War. Not one Christian. Not one school teacher. Neither of my parents. I was just an 18 year old kid that wanted to get a start in life while doing my patriotic duty.

I make this analogy: Some people see a fist-fight break-out and stand there watching, hoping to see some pain and blood, while others will try to stop the fight immediately. Some people enjoy pain and violence, especially if they can sit and watch from a safe distance (think Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh - two non-veterans who are both warmongers) . Others believe in the goodness of man and try to make the world a better place (think Ghandi and Jesus).

Happy Birthday America! When the party is over let's get to cleaning up the mess we have made.

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» RE: The wrong war Posted by: Schroeder
» RE: The wrong war Posted by: MindyB
» RE: The wrong war Posted by: MindyB
312199227
Posted by: 312199227 on Jul 4, 2007 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately, nothing has changed in 30 some years. Our congress critters has known of these troubles of vets for years, other than set on their collective rears and get fatter, they have done nothing. I came out of one duty station, and decided I might better see someone as I could explode in a blinding rage. I was told, have a beer Corp, it will wear off in time. Oh yeah, maybe you had better start smoking cigs again, can't have you thumping the privates. When a Sgt, I was told by a Co I drank to much, and smoked to much. Well, I got out with an Honorable. The VA heath care system is a joke, and has been for many years. Well, my friends, at least the ones that made it back, only one has done well. Oh yes, my wife just remarked the other night, she couldn't understand me exploding a night ago. So it goes. Shalom

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» RE: 312199227 Posted by: MindyB
Warned...As far back as 2004...by the 'Brit' Commanders...of all people...
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jul 4, 2007 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
British commanders condemn US military tactics
By Sean Rayment London April 12, 2004
Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.
One senior officer said that America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.
The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans".
Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans' use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are."

The phrase untermenschen - literally "under-people" - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slavs and gypsies.
Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders' "concerns and fears".
The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used on targets in urban areas.
British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets. The American approach was markedly different, the officer said.
"When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.
"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage, but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later."
The officer believed America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the insurgents.
"The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed," he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people."
...But they didn't....

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» Pass it on.... Posted by: ekipnrut
WAR KILLS
Posted by: unity1 on Jul 4, 2007 2:12 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there is a price and consequence for every action - those who join the military pay the price of loosing their lives - thats the consequence of war - to think otherwise is denial - whoever joins the military has to fully comprhend that and in todays world given the mass knowledge base we have - anyone who joins the military is assumed to know that fighting illegal wars, invading defensless countries is bound to affect you mentally - the military delibratlley deprogrames your humanity - killing is not a 'natural given of human beings despite the rethoric as these people have discovered - you can not bury atrocities in any part of your mind deep enough to forget them - you pay a price and that price is a heavy one - even if you surive a part of you is dead and or in torment forever -

No one learns from history - male araggance is to great - all wars have produced the same symptoms - all of them - and all wars have been acts of agression by one small group of elites towards other small groups of elites with ordinary people brainwashed by flag waving and chest crossing indoctrination - dupped into supporting the wars of the elites with their minds and lives

while i have compassion for these people - they are now reaping what they sowed - the consequences of their actions

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» RE: WAR KILLS Posted by: MindyB
» RE: WAR KILLS Posted by: paschn
A Vietnam vignette worth repeating on Independence Day.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 4, 2007 4:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1966, after two combat support tours in Southeast Asia as a KC135 tanker pilot, weary of LBJ’s war and mad as hell at the way he had bungled it, I resigned my Regular commission and joined Continental Airlines.

Following B707 training, I began operating civilian contract flights as a first officer for the Military Airlift Command (MAC) to South Vietnam. For five years, I flew frightened teenaged GIs to Cam Rhan Bay, Bien Hoa, Da Nang and other in-country air bases. On return flights, my Proud Bird brought back old soldiers with young faces and a lifetime of nightmares ahead of them.

In 1970, I picked up a load of grunts at Da Nang going back to the “world” (USA) after finishing 12 months in country, with an interim stop at Okinawa for processing.

Wearing fatigues splattered with mud and blood, the Marines boarded my Boeing and sat down in comfortable one-class accommodations with plenty of leg space unlike nowadays.

Thirty seats were empty. Before engine start, the manifesting officer, a jerk Marine major, told me in an almost bragging manner the missing troops had been killed or wounded that morning at a hot landing zone before choppers could fly them out.

The same asshole then made an announcement over the PA system he thought was funny, saying the Continental jet with five friendly flight attendants onboard was a trick way off taking the grunts back to the LZ.

Nobody smiled, much less laughed.

Several days later, after another Da Nang turnaround and a layover on Okinawa, I left nonstop for California with the same group of Marines in back.

At first glance during boarding, they looked completely different: showered and shaved, fresh haircuts and new uniforms. Still, their faces were the same, unsmiling and suspicious, as though the MAC charter was indeed like the asshole major at Da Nang said―a sly method of flying them back to Nam.

Following takeoff when the meal service was complete, I strolled through the cabin to see how the combat vets were doing. Some were dozing, the rest awake and reading magazines. I couldn’t help noticing what kind. Almost all were comic books.

After my initial surprise, I theorized why the childish publications were so popular. It seemed to me the seasoned jungle killers were still teenagers inside, trying to regain what LBJ’s war had taken from them: the last year of their adolescence.

I see the same tragedy happening in Iraq. Like Vietnam, Gulf War 2 is being fought mainly by kids from low-income families. So-called “volunteers,” they joined the military to escape poverty, only to lose their lives and limbs while sons of rich Republicans sit smugly at home watching the action on Fox News―elitist little pricks sipping Classic Cokes and munching buttered popcorn as less fortunate citizens their age are getting killed and wounded in Iraq, the whole time wishing to hell they’d never volunteered in the first place.

Rep. Charley Rangel, a decorated Korean War vet, wants the draft reinstated. I do too, if nothing more than to build the character in young Americans our nation so desperately needs. But mention forced induction to Republicans and they throw up their hands in horror. God forbid their precious GOP offspring having to endure boot camp much less combat.

And why should they serve? With 34 million Americans living in poverty under Bush economic policies favoring the wealthiest citizens plus 45 million families without medical insurance, there is plenty of GI cannon fodder to go around.

NOTE: The above text is from my 2004 nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT . To read a synoposis and sample chapter, visit PhonyFighterPilot.com.

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» RE: Re-instate the Draft Posted by: scott balogh
These 3 subjects are a small minority
Posted by: kbest on Jul 4, 2007 6:14 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know 5 people that are either in Iraq now or have served at least 2 tours there. 3 are home now and I showed them this article and all 3 said basically the same thing. WHAT A BUNCH OF BS.

All 5 enjoy their military service and 2 re-enlisted while over in Iraq. For every 3 soldiers like in this article, there are thousands who just don't fit the bill.

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what does NAVY mean?
Posted by: eosrk on Jul 4, 2007 7:52 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself

and have not done so since August 1995, when I was kicked out. When the Iraq Conflict started up, then got out of hand, the Navy called me up to re-join, since I have vast experience in engineering(and still do, since I worked at a congeneration plant), and I simply told them;
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself

and gladly gave the recuriter the finger, and a "Fuck You", soundoff!!!

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you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: unity1 on Jul 4, 2007 9:46 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and you have the audacity to call them 'bad'
you as american soilders are the agresssors an invading race and the Iraqi people are resisting you - you in your turn kill anything that moves - over a million women children and men, mostly innocent of anything other than having their land invaded are dead more millions are refugess, you talk about your PTSD what about the hate of the children whove seen their entire familes wiped out what about their PTSD

you have to live with what you have done for the rest of your lives - and you have to live with the facts that you are responsible for so many needless deaths - you invaded their country illegaly - their improvished country - and you have the nerve to label them insurgents they are FREEDOM fighters, fighting to reclaim their country from the death embrace of your government - you are killling them and fighting for lies just like Vietnam - the same people were in power then as now - nothing changed not even the lies

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» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country Posted by: White middleclass male
But!
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 9, 2007 12:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The nightmare still isn't over!

Not just...

yet!

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Hide Behind
Posted by: theoldman on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would call you comrades in arms as one vet, RVN , but to me you are not.
I enjoy professionalism of arms and knew and still know men of arms, us mercs and Professional Mercsand it is to the professioal I hold more respect than military.
At least Professioals I know and have met are honest in their appraisal of themselves and why they chose that vocation.
Of the 30+ I have met through the years they make war because that is their buisness and make no false claims of patriotism and expect no admiraiton except in their skill levels in whatevr field they excell in.
A military family, 4 served in Nam at same time, and history back to 1670s' and a lot of wars, today I have relatives I will not claim who play warrior in Iraq.
There is no reason for any man with an IQ above 60 to not know that the Iraq war is not a war for democracy, not in the Defense of America a war to make war, and that once your done or they no longer need you may get dumped as hundreds of thousands RVN and over 250,00 of Iraq I were .
Many volunteered for Nam; and while many of us were poor and were forcibly drafted most of us retained our humanity no matter what. Not all but the majority did.
Many did not, rape and pillage during search and destroy or collect finger bones or ears ; some exception as were those who enjoyed killing and the high of combat.
Even during the Mi Lai massacre not one black soldiert killed an innocent, it was all good ol white boys, and to this day the pilot and gunner on his slick that stopped it are truly the most heroic figures of that war in my mind.
I worked with todays vets who have played in Iraq, Somalia, Balkans and almost to a man they are truly decadent and know nothing of humanity, warriors in reality butchers. I met sniper teams who made bets, sometimes with officers, if they could hit a civilian even at long range, one a muslim cleric calling to services from a minaret at 700 meters of which they laughed, for a twenty, and then tell me of shooting an old unarmed man or boy to get an enemy to come out to rescue them.
Iraq is a slaughterhouse and in fact an very easy war carried out by not citizen soldier but some mixed up warrior mentality that has nothign to do with patriotism or defense of Constitution.
The private mercs didn't waste their time or place excess risk.
They were professioanls. they would kill you as well as look at you without a qualm if need be, but were just doing a well paying job.
Don't ask me to wave a flag, or worship the ground you tread upon, I and many men I am proud to of served with passed up trigger time chances because they knew the war was wrong and they fought and died like men against other men to just get home.
The majority of American people do not know the reality of your warfare and your living conditions. That you fight a poorly equipped civilain force who in the main is fighting for home and family, that Amerians have abused. that from 100 to 400 or more a day missions slay 300 mainly unarmed Iraquis daily.
A Turkey Shoot!
Indeed many men want to go back, young first termers and a few lifers, to being door kickers and some trigger time, because they are the easiest forces our military ever had a chance to kill.
War is hell but in this case we are bringing hell just to bring hell because we like it and to make a living.
I would like to blame propaganda and your military and civilain trainers but you are not stupid and all men have free will excpet when being tortured or humiliated by our forces.
Your employer owes whatever they said you get; all for that, a workman is worth whatever the wage agreed upon.
I will let others play with plastic ribbons and flags; I owe my honor to those names on a black wall.
At least the whores in Baghdad can make 30,000 a year in fees for an honest days work.

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You know, there are other people dying out there...
Posted by: Temporary on Jul 9, 2007 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then jusr your damn soldiers!

What about them?

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Numb
Posted by: hagwind on Jul 9, 2007 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It gets to the point where they numb you. They numb you to death. They numb you to anything."

I started crying when I got to that. It's not that I haven't read and heard stories like these three, and not just about this war. When I was a young antiwar activist almost forty years ago, it was the stories of the returning servicemen that gave me reasons for opposing that war went beyond politics. Numb. You have to go numb to tolerate the intolerable. When the intolerable is unfixable, how else do you survive? The soldiers who manage to not see who they're killing and what they're destroying and what it's doing to their heads -- they're numb. We here at home, watching it on the TV or reading about it in the papers or online -- we get numb. Even if we're speaking and organizing against the war, we're numb most of the time, and it's a blessing too, because if we felt 24/7 the kind of experiences that these three people describe, we wouldn't be able to string five coherent words together or put one foot in front of the other. If we had to really feel the lives behind the statistics we read every day -- not just for a few moments but for hours at a time -- we'd go numb. Sometimes I go numb just trying to keep my own life on track; my life's pretty good, but I know that if I let too much reality in, I'd be babbling by the side of the road. Going numb looks like the only alternative.

"You come back, and it starts coming back to you slowly. Now you gotta figure out a way to deal with it. In Iraq you had a way to deal with it, because they kept pushing you back out there. Keep pushing you back out into the streets. Go, go, go. Hey, I just shot four people today. Yeah, and in about four hours you're going to go back out, and you'll probably shoot six more."

In war the intolerable and the unthinkable become normal. What you have to do to survive to the end of the tour, the end of the day -- the next few minutes. "Normal" is like an anesthetic. It numbs you. If everyone else is doing it, it's OK. Coming "home" is like an alcoholic or an addict quitting cold turkey -- you give up the anesthetic and you're face-to-face with all the experiences and terrors it was shielding you from.

I can't stop crying. (Don't worry, I'll get over it; I have to get back to work.) What just hit me is that most of us in the U.S. of A. don't have to come back, or get sober. We can go about our lives in the belly of this beast that's snuffing out lives and dreams and consciences all over the world (including here in the big belly) and never admit that what we call "normal" is intolerable and unsustainable. We have the luxury of staying numb.

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THIS COMBAT VETERAN SAYS IT'S TIME TO COME HOME....
Posted by: kc10ken on Jul 9, 2007 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bring us home....NOW.

I did 3 tours in the middle east before refusing to reenlist because of Bush's QUAGMIRE in Iraq. This was after 13 years of honorable service to my country.

It's far past time to bring us home....no good can come out of this situation....for both us and the Iraqis.

I'm not an expert on middle eastern history and culture, however, it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Iraq would turn into a huge clusterfuck. I tried to tell my fellow service members this back in the fall of 2002. They all laughed at me and labelled me "traitor"...."pussy" and the likes.

They're not laughing now.

I buried three of them last year and now not a single friend of mine from my former unit thinks this war in Iraq is justified, sane or winnable. You civilians must know something about our military....most guys want out of Iraq and think it's a waste but CANNOT speak publicly. You think politics are bad in the civilian world? You have NO IDEA how bad they are in the military.

What really amazes me is how misinformed Americans really are about our situation in Iraq.

SHAMEFUL

GET US OUT NOW! BRING US HOME!

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Here's what I did. it works.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 9, 2007 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a warrant officer helicopter pilot in Vietnam. I served two tours of duty. That war messed me up, true. But the country never fulfilled the obligation to fix me (or other combat vets) before I went on a rampage throughout the land.

A substantial group of us ended up in jail or nut houses for doing our patriotic duty. We served with distinction and courage. The nation did not keep the promise.

Within one year of leaving active duty, you should go get counciling with the VA or PRIVATE MEDICAL doctors for what ever ails you. If you spend five or ten sessions with a private pysch you got a claim in the future for PTSD or Depression or what ever. Even sentence reduction will be helped.

Six months after I got home I got the "shakes." It happened suddenly, without warning. It frightened me so, that I got private professional help cause I was still flying in the Army Reserve.

But, in a few years, when I thought all was well again, my life fell apart again. This time I traveled the country robbing banks and gun stores.

Indeed, I have become an advocate of criminal behavior to solve ones "personal" problems. We committed crimes in our wars for the country, but we got nothing for it but bad health. Therefore, it is time to commit crimes for yourselves. War and criminal action is about the same thing for planning and execution. The difference being that you do it for yourself and not the "country."

Just remember, the people of this fair land and its government does not give a "rats ass" about you or your "problems." It is all on you, and "thanks for your service" is all you will likely hear.

Shove a gun up their asses and take what was promissed. You got nothing to loose.

Signed,

A Vietnam Vet who learned the hard way.

PS. I am living on a total disability pension. I got it after being imprisoned for my crimes. I got it the hard way, which is the way most will have to get it. Good luck, brothers.

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As a veteran
Posted by: willymack on Jul 9, 2007 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get "thanks for your service" from people in my rural agricultural town. Most of these people are farmers and cowboys, and are as tough as nails. Their approach toward me is almost always embarassing. I want to shout:"Don't you know what we did to those poor people (Vietnamese) in the name of freedom"? The fact is that things starting improving for Vietnam the minute we were uncermoniously ejected from that incredibly beautiful country, and the Vitnamese people, in true Buddist fashion, have forgiven us for our crimes against them. Now, we're brutalizing another helpless country with the same patriotic pablum as a justification, when practically anyone with a brain KNOWS the real reason we're there is to steal their oil, period. The difference now, is the muslim population will NEVER forgive us for our crimes against them, and will NEVER forget what we did. Before you think of thanking an Iraq "war" veteran for his or her service, just say something like "welcome home".

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» Well said, willymack! Posted by: HughScott
» "those people" Posted by: ateo
The TRUTH about Bush 43 worth repeating.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 9, 2007 4:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever AlterNet raises the subject of Iraq, I will post the following comment for NEW visitors who may need factual enlightening about George W.'s true character:

Time and again, Dub-ya has shown himself to be an immoral and corrupt politician who was never qualifed to occupy the Oval Office. His recent quid-pro-quo obstruction of justice by voiding Scooter Libbey's prison sentence is just the latest of a long list of transgressions, distortions and outright lies, as follows:

Bush’s falsified White House biography.
So-called Iraqi WMDs.
"Immediate" threats.
Yellow-cake uranium.
Aluminum tubes.
Mobile biological weapons labs.
Ties to Al Qaeda.
A 9/11 connection.
The Valerie Plame/CIA leak case.
Scooter Libby’s conviction for perjury and obstruction of justice.
Secret overseas prisons.
Torture.
Warrantless wiretaps of United States citizens.
Phony Al Qaeda plots.
False claims that America is safer now from terrorism than before 9/11.
Failing to safeguard our border with Mexico.
Seeking amnesty for illegal immigrants in return for votes and cheap labor.
Concealing the real cost of Gulf War 2.
Destroying the combat effectiveness of National Guard and Ready Reserve troops.
Sending them into Iraq with obsolete body armor and unprotected Humvees.
Understating Iraqi civilian casualties.
Embellishing U.S. successes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Misrepresenting the only wartime tax cut in American history.
Economically betraying senior citizens, the middle class and working poor.
Downplaying global warming.
Bush going on vacation during Hurricane Katrina while fellow Americans drowned in New Orleans.
Vetoing stem cell research for religous reasons.
Claiming wounded GIs got the best treatment possible at Walter Reed.
Preventing the coffins of returning GIs from being seen by the public.
Hiding injured Iraq veterans from the press after landing stateside.
Declassifying intelligence information for political purposes.
Firing U.S. attorneys for the same reason.
Obstructing justice by destroying White House emails, allowing AG Gonzales to lie before Congress, claiming Cheney isn’t part of the executive branch and refusing to let former White Houses staff members such as Harriet Miers testify before Congress.


The first item on my list was reported by the Boston Globe on February 28, 2004.

Headlined, ”Bush Bio on Web Inflates Guard Service,” the Globe story told how I scooped thousands of Web-surfing journalists by finding a fabricated presidential biography someone in the White House had inadvertently posted on a State Department website.

For AlterNet visitors unfamiliar with George W.’s fabricated Guard history, it claimed he flew F102s almost SIX years when the actual time was 27 months. The text contained other misrepresentations as well -- all intentional, not typos or mistaken dictation.

For example, the bogus bio asserted that Bush spent four years helping to keep two F102s on strip alert. In truth, he was only qualified for alert duty 22 months and the last 60 days were plagued by pilot problems attributed to poor airmanship, excessive drinking and a rumored fear of flying.

You can learn more about the “Bogus Bush Bio Caper” by visiting my nonprofit investigative website, King-George.biz, which features 60 cartoons, photos and other Bushwhacking illustrations.

Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, John Kerry supporter in 2004 and author of the narrative nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT.

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Joining the military in a country that does not provide health care to its citizens...
Posted by: ateo on Jul 9, 2007 6:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is insane.

The first guy said he got 10 days to get off the base? Yea, that's about right. That's how the military deals with anyone they don't think is worth keeping around or is all used up. 10 days is their bench mark for you to be done and gone and nothing but a name and social security number in the VA's database somewhere.

You give them years, sweat, blood, tears - they give you 10 days to get the fuck out.

Then you're on your own, good luck have fun. They teach you how to write a resume that a 10th grader should be able to top and you have no real skills because 95% of everything in the military does not apply to the civilian world.

The best you can hope for is a government job or some job given to you out of pity from one of these companies that likes to claim they are "veteran friendly."

link

Anyway, it's just a bad deal from start to finish. Yet this is nothing new, but it's something they don't teach you in school and they don't show on TV. Kids these days only know what they learn in school or see on TV or in a video game. They graduate and buy into all the news media/military propaganda and think joining the military is a great deal and a path to a better life. For some it is, but for many it doesn't quite work out that way.

Why do we keep letting this shit happen? It makes everyone who ever knew a kid that ended up the military responsible for not warning them.

Risk your health for a country that won't do shit for you if you come back broken? 10 days to get the fuck out the door and never come back? Yea, no thanks.

All I ever wanted was out of the military without ending up in a box or in chains. I managed that and anything after that is just gravy. I'm alive, I'm not in prison.

How can the American people let themselves be fucking fooled every couple of decades by the power whores in Washington? You would think we'd learn something about the nature of warfare, how it happens, what it does to participants etc. after the MIC fucks us over a couple of times - apparently not. People don't study history and they can't tell you what happened before the OJ trial broke on MSNBC (if that) so we are doomed to be manipulated by the ones calling the shots.

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War is not the answer
Posted by: Trazom on Jul 9, 2007 7:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever I see an article on Alternet about Iraq I must point out the obvious:

1. War is wrong
2. War is immoral
3. War deprives children of their parents
4. War ultimately kills many more than just those casualties on the battlefield

You would think that in the year 2007, we would have learned these lessons. Apparently not.

If just 1/3 of the American population knew the true horrors of war we would not engage in this futile endeavor anymore. Like I've said before, unless you're prepared to shoot your mother, your grandmother, your daugher, even your infant in the face, then don't sign up for the military. You are essentially doing the same thing - it's just someone else's loved one.

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