COMMENTS: 59
Iraq Comes Home: Soldiers Share the Devastating Tales of War
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Statistics are one way to tell the story of the approximately 1.4 million servicemen and women who've been to Iraq and Afghanistan. According to a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine in 2004, 86 percent of soldiers in Iraq reported knowing someone who was seriously injured or killed there. Some 77 percent reported shooting at the enemy; 75 percent reported seeing women or children in imminent peril and being unable to help. Fifty-one percent reported handling or uncovering human remains; 28 percent were responsible for the death of a noncombatant. One in five Iraq veterans return home seriously impaired by post-traumatic stress disorder.
Words are another way. Below are the stories of three veterans of this war, told in their voices, edited for flow and efficiency but otherwise unchanged. They bear out the statistics and suggest that even those who are not diagnosably impaired return burdened by experiences they can neither forget nor integrate into their postwar lives. They speak of the inadequacy of what the military calls reintegration counseling, of the immediacy of their worst memories, of their helplessness in battle, of the struggle to rejoin a society that seems unwilling or unable to comprehend the price of their service. Strangers to one another and to me, they nevertheless tried, sometimes through tears, to communicate what the intensity of an ambiguous war has done to them.
One veteran, Sue Randolph, put it this way: "People walk up to me and say, 'Thank you for your service.' And I know they mean well, but I want to ask, 'Do you know what you're thanking me for?'" She, Rocky, and Michael Goss offer their stories here in the hope that citizens will begin to know.
***
Michael Goss, 29, served two tours in Iraq. He grew up in Corpus Christi and returned there after his other-than-honorable discharge. He lives with his brother. He is divorced and sees his children every other weekend while working the graveyard shift as a bail bondsman. He is quietly intelligent, thoughtful and attentive, always saying "ma'am" and opening the door for people. He struggles with severe PTSD and is obsessed with learning about the insurgency by studying reports and videos online. He is awaiting treatment from the Veterans Administration. He has been waiting for over a year.
Michael Goss:
I gave the Army seven years. It was supposed to be my career. I did two tours in Iraq, in 2003 and 2005. But during the last one, I started to get depressed. I lost faith in my chain of command. I became known as a rogue NCO. That's how I got my other-than-honorable discharge.
One night they said to me, "Sgt. Goss, gather your best guys." I say, "Where we going?" They say, "Don't worry about it, just come on." So we get in the car and go. We drive three blocks away, and there's six dead soldiers on the ground. They say, "You're casualty collecting tonight." I'm not prepared for that. I wasn't taught how to do that. But you're there. So you pick them up, and you put them in a body bag, pieces by pieces, and you go back to your unit, and you stand inside your room. And they're like, "You're going on a patrol, come on." You're like, "Hang on a minute. Let me think about what I just did here." I just put six American guys in damn body bags. Nobody's prepared for that. Nobody's prepared for that thing to blow up on the side of the road. You're talking, and you're driving, and then something blows up, and the next thing you know, two of your guys are missing their faces. They just want you to get up the next day and go, go, let's do it again, you're a soldier. Yeah, I got the soldier part, OK?
It gets to the point where they numb you. They numb you to death. They numb you to anything. You come back, and it starts coming back to you slowly. Now you gotta figure out a way to deal with it. In Iraq you had a way to deal with it, because they kept pushing you back out there. Keep pushing you back out into the streets. Go, go, go. Hey, I just shot four people today. Yeah, and in about four hours you're going to go back out, and you'll probably shoot six more. So let's go. Just deal with it. We'll fix it when we get back. That's basically what they're telling you. We'll fix it all when we get back. We'll get your head right and everything when we get back to the States. I'm sorry, it's not like that. It's not supposed to be like that. All the soldiers have post-traumatic stress disorder, and they're like, "Hey, you're good. You went to counseling four times, you can go back to Iraq. It's OK." No. It doesn't work that way.
I have PTSD. I know when I got it -- the night I killed an 8-year-old girl. Her family was trying to cross a checkpoint. We'd just shot three guys who'd tried to run a checkpoint. And during that mess, they were just trying to get through to get away from it all. And we ended up shooting all them, too. It was a family of six. The only one that survived was a 13-month-old and her mother. And the worst part about it all was that where I shot my bullets, when I went to see what I'd shot at, there was an 8-year-old girl there. I tried my best to bring her back to life, but there was no use. But that's what triggered my depression.
When I got out of the Army, I had 10 days to get off base. There was no reintegration counseling. As soon as I got back, nobody gave a fuck about anything except that piece of paper that said I got everything out of my room. I got out of the Army, and everything went to shit from there.
My wife ended up finding another guy. I'm getting divorced, and I'm fighting for custody. She wants child support, the house, the car, the boys.
I get three nights off a week. And I drink and take pills to help me sleep at night. I do what I can to help myself. I talk to friends. Soldiers who were there. Once in a while one of my old soldiers will call me, drunk off his ass, crying about the stuff he saw in Iraq. And all I can do is tell him, "You and me both are going to have to find a way to work this out." That's the only thing I can tell him.
I do martial arts, that's what I do. I go in a cage and I fight. It helps take my mind off of things. I get hurt, but I can't feel it. I don't feel it until after it's all over with.
So let's put this in perspective now. I got two Iraq tours, multiple kills, I picked up plenty of dead bodies, American bodies, enemy bodies. I killed an 8-year-old girl, which still haunts me to this day. I come back home. My wife finds somebody else. I'm sleeping on my brother's couch while she has the apartment, the kids, the car, everything that we worked on together. I work as a bail bondsman making $432 a week, which all goes to my brother. I have to fight just to see my boys because she's at the point where she thinks I don't deserve to see my kids because I haven't had help for my PTSD. She's scared I might do something stupid. And the VA won't help me out because of my other-than-honorable discharge. What else do you want to know?
Every month the VA sends me a letter saying I'm still under review. I'm like, I couldn't care less about the money. I don't care about disability percentage. I want you to tell me to go to this fucking doctor here and go get help. That's what I want them to tell me. If they think I don't deserve money because I got kicked out with other-than-honorable discharge, fine. But don't tell me I'm cured all of a sudden, because I'm not. I still have my nightmares, anxiety attacks, panic attacks, I still see the glitter from the IED blowing up when I'm going down the street. I still see the barrette in her hair when I carried her out of the car to the ambulance when she was bleeding all over me. I still see all that. And there's nothing that I can do about that now.
***
Rocky, 26, prefers to remain anonymous. He joined the Army shortly before the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and went to Iraq in 2004 for one year and a day. A Houston native, he lives alone now in a Dallas apartment, goes to community college and works in construction. He's funny, playful and handsome, and carries a pool cue in his trunk to be ready for a game at any time. He doesn't tell people he's a veteran. He doesn't like to talk about it. This story is an exception.
Rocky:
I was one of those kids that could have been handed anything on a silver platter. But I really worked hard for everything anyway, because I wanted to prove myself. And my parents, who would have given me anything, ruled with an iron fist. And I was patriotic. So it seemed like everything in my life pointed to the Army as the way to go.
I was 20. I'm sure I was different then. I don't know how. I know how I am now. I assume that the character traits that I show now are the core set of values that I left with. My sense of pride, hard work. Everything I have, I made out of nothing.
You get to see what people are made of over there. You get to see how shallow people are, how weak they are. How strong they can be in horrible moments. And then how the people you should be looking up to are hiding, and you have to look out for them. You get to really see what a person is made of.
And over there, I learned to read people. I know what they're going to do before they do it. After seeing the same movements before you get shot at or bombed, the same symptoms of the city and the people around you -- it's a fluid movement. Doors close, people disappear, and all of a sudden you're like, OK guys, hunker down, it's about to hit us. And all of a sudden, you're under fire.
People would pop shots at us and pop back. They'd have a setup where they have a bomb in the road, and everybody sits by the windows when they set off an IED. When we're looking at what's going on, everybody's laughing and pointing and smiling after your buddy's sitting there bleeding. So I held them all responsible. Everybody that was in the guilty range.
If there was gunfire coming from a window, I shot into that window and made sure nothing was coming back out at me. One time, there was an RPG shooter shooting at me. He hit a Bradley in front of us, and we were in a Humvee. He hit the Bradley in front of us, and the round didn't go off. It got stuck in the mud. So the Bradley rolled back, and we rolled back. And I had to shoot the position-caller before I could shoot the actual shooter. He didn't have a gun, but I knew what he was doing. He was the one calling out what's going on. He was on the phone. So I sent a shot up 20 feet above him and below him and to the side of him. And he just stood there. On his phone, talking the whole time. Innocent people run. The bad guys stay and fight. If they're not running, they're going to be calling. That's the way I see it. So I shot him. If you freaked out and stood still, I'm sorry. I cannot take this chance again. You have to start making these moral decisions. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. You're caught in the fucking middle of it.
After that, now I think, well, now I'm damned. Now I've done the worst thing. There's not much more worse you can do than shoot an unarmed person. It's not just, man, now I got to fucking deal with this. It's like, man, I hope nobody saw that, because I'll go to jail, too. You feel so horrible. You kind of die inside. There's really nothing beneath me now. I'm at the bottom of the barrel. You're worried about salvation and people finding out these dirty little secrets. It's not something that you wanted to do. It might be something that you had to do, that you accidentally did. Things happen. And then there's the whole fear of going to jail for trying to do what's right for your country -- it's bad. Sometimes you think people are shooting at you, and you'd rather just chance it because you're hoping they don't have an armor-piercing round.
But I'm not going to bow down. I know what I'm made of -- do you? Most people have no idea what matters. When I'm standing at the gates and I see St. Peter, I'll say, lemme in. I try to do right now. I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I go to school, maybe I'll earn a midlevel job. Just fly under the radar. I don't want any attention. I just want to be away from people. Not many people call me still. I keep it real dim in my apartment. I like it calm and quiet. This is what life's made of. Being able to relax and be safe. Watch a movie, play some video games. Just to sit back and have fun with your friends. That's beautiful.
***
Sue Randolph, 39, grew up in Saudi Arabia and earned her master's degree in Arabic at the University of Michigan. After her service in 2003, she moved to Houston with her husband, a geologist. She now works in satellite communications and raises her 3-year-old daughter, a self-identified "princess," and a 2-month-old kitten named Sparkles. Randolph's family goes kayaking and hiking on weekends. She is clever, quick-witted, passionate and kind. She still struggles with anxiety while driving and when she's near crowds. She finds news about the war upsetting and frustratingly inaccurate.
Sue Randolph:
I joined the Army because I had $65,000 in student loans and didn't know how I was going to make payments. Since I had a master's in political science -- Middle East studies and Arabic -- I ended up doing translation as part of the search for weapons of mass destruction. For a year, my team drove around behind the 3rd Infantry getting shot at, getting mortared, looking at warehouses of documents, chemicals, and parts of things that could be WMDs. I mean, you name it, we did it. We talked to people. We went into people's houses.
The technological level of the things I saw wasn't anywhere near anything [former Secretary of State] Colin Powell talked about. The buildings we went into, wiring was on the outside of the walls. I didn't see anything like the equipment you'd see in a fifth-grade science lab. The most technically advanced thing we saw was a 12-volt car battery hooked up to bedsprings for torture. But not anything on the chemical or biological level.
Iraq looks like it's straight out of the Bible. It's mud brick, it's falling down. It's kids with sticks herding goats. There's like three high-rises in all of Baghdad, and those are the only ones you'll ever see on any newscast. The rest of it is mud brick falling down.
At the time, I would see little girls on the side of the road, and I felt like I was part of a big machine that was going to help them have a better life. At the time. Now, looking at all of the lack of evidence for us being there except GW throwing a temper tantrum, frankly I feel -- not used, because I signed up for it -- but I feel like we were there for no good reason. Eventually Saddam would have been overthrown, either by his own people or through Iran or someone else, and change would have come. It wouldn't have been on our timetable, but it would have happened. I don't think it was worthwhile at all.
When I went back to my base in Germany, it was like a bad dream. It was like nothing happened. Then I got out of the Army and came back to the States. Once you leave the Army, there's no reintegration help of any kind. Unless you went looking for it, there was nothing. And even if you went looking for it, you had to dig.
The military says that they're giving exit counseling and reintegration. What they're calling reentry counseling, in my experience, was, "Don't drink and drive. Pay your bills on time. Don't beat your spouse. Don't kick your dog." All of these things that once you've reached a certain age, you're supposed to know. None of it is, "If you have discomfort with dealing with crowds, if you don't feel comfortable with your spouse, if you can't sleep in a bed, if you don't want to drive down the road because you think everything is a bomb, here's what to do." No psychological or de-stress counseling is involved in this reintegration to garrison. And that's just if you're staying in the Army. If you're leaving the Army, you get, "Here's how to write a resume."
They don't prepare you to leave. Hell, they didn't prepare me to be there. I was going into people's houses trying to tell the wife and kids as we're segregating them out from the men that we're the good guys. But they're crying because one of their kids got killed because he was up there sleeping on the roof when we decided to bust into their house. I mean that's crazy. But we're the good guys. Now I have to deal with that for the next 20 or 30 years. I have a 3-year-old. I deal with that every day.
I think we are going to end up like after Vietnam if we're not careful. The Vietnam guys were treated really horribly, and whether they came back and quietly went back to their lives or not, they were all stereotyped in a criminal negative. And I'm afraid if we as a society don't learn what we didn't do for those guys, we're going to have that in spades. We don't have low-end kind of industry jobs for them like working in the auto plant, so they're not going to be supporting their families. And they're going to be angry. They're going to feel like they're owed. Do we get everybody counseling as soon as they get out, mandatory 90-day counseling? I don't know how. But there isn't enough money in this country right now to make some of these guys feel like what they went through was worthwhile.
We have no comprehension of the psychological cost of this war. I know kids in Iraq who killed themselves. I know kids that got killed. OK, that's apparently the price of doing business. But multiply me by 2 million. If I'm fairly high-functioning, what about the ones that aren't? They're going back to small-town America, and their families aren't going to know what to do with them. It's like, what do we do with Johnny now?
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Posted by: Captainmagic on Jul 4, 2007 3:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then you get to go home and get discarded by the Gov't...joining an american army is just the most insane thing that can be done...why would you do it...you buy into it, you break it, you own it, sorry it does not come with any warranty...
Sorry about the rant but in my army there has always been and will always be a rule of engagement practice and it does not involve emptying every mag in the box at 'something' to my front.
You guy's may be the lucky one's....if this ramshackle of an army gets to blister into Iran it's going to get it's arse well and truly stitched up.
Captain OUT
Go ahead "Fire mission battery"
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» RE: WWII for example
Posted by: Edward George
» RE: WWII for example.....agreed
Posted by: Captainmagic
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Posted by: mizipi on Jul 4, 2007 4:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Enjoyed this article, but sympathize for the three people. In 1974, I enlisted into the military. Not one person spoke to me about the Vietnam War. Not one Christian. Not one school teacher. Neither of my parents. I was just an 18 year old kid that wanted to get a start in life while doing my patriotic duty.
I make this analogy: Some people see a fist-fight break-out and stand there watching, hoping to see some pain and blood, while others will try to stop the fight immediately. Some people enjoy pain and violence, especially if they can sit and watch from a safe distance (think Dick Cheney and Rush Limbaugh - two non-veterans who are both warmongers) . Others believe in the goodness of man and try to make the world a better place (think Ghandi and Jesus).
Happy Birthday America! When the party is over let's get to cleaning up the mess we have made.
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» RE: The wrong war
Posted by: Schroeder
» RE: The wrong war
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: The wrong war
Posted by: MindyB
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Posted by: 312199227 on Jul 4, 2007 7:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: 312199227
Posted by: MindyB
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Posted by: ekipnrut on Jul 4, 2007 11:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By Sean Rayment London April 12, 2004
Senior British commanders have condemned American military tactics in Iraq as heavy-handed and disproportionate.
One senior officer said that America's aggressive methods were causing friction among allied commanders and that there was a growing sense of "unease and frustration" among the British high command.
The officer, speaking on condition of anonymity, said part of the problem was that American troops viewed Iraqis as untermenschen - the Nazi expression for "sub-humans".
Speaking from his base in southern Iraq, the officer said: "My view and the view of the British chain of command is that the Americans' use of violence is not proportionate and is over-responsive to the threat they are facing. They don't see the Iraqi people the way we see them. They view them as untermenschen. They are not concerned about the Iraqi loss of life in the way the British are."
The phrase untermenschen - literally "under-people" - was brought to prominence by Adolf Hitler in his book Mein Kampf, published in 1925. He used the term to describe those he regarded as racially inferior: Jews, Slavs and gypsies.
Although no formal complaints have as yet been made to their American counterparts, the officer said the British Government was aware of its commanders' "concerns and fears".
The officer explained that, under British military rules of war, British troops would never be given clearance to carry out attacks similar to those being conducted by the US military, in which helicopter gunships have been used on targets in urban areas.
British rules of engagement only allow troops to open fire when attacked, using the minimum force necessary and only at identified targets. The American approach was markedly different, the officer said.
"When US troops are attacked with mortars in Baghdad, they use mortar-locating radar to find the firing point and then attack the general area with artillery, even though the area they are attacking may be in the middle of a densely populated residential area.
"They may well kill the terrorists in the barrage, but they will also kill and maim innocent civilians. That has been their response on a number of occasions. It is trite, but American troops do shoot first and ask questions later."
The officer believed America had now lost the military initiative in Iraq, and it could only be regained with carefully planned, precision attacks against the insurgents.
"The US will have to abandon the sledgehammer-to-crack-a-nut approach - it has failed," he said. "They need to stop viewing every Iraqi, every Arab as the enemy and attempt to win the hearts and minds of the people."...But they didn't....
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» RE: Warned...As far back as 2004...by the 'Brit' Commanders...of all people...
Posted by: leafsong1
» Pass it on....
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Warned...As far back as 2004...by the 'Brit' Commanders...of all people...
Posted by: kossack1
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Posted by: unity1 on Jul 4, 2007 2:12 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one learns from history - male araggance is to great - all wars have produced the same symptoms - all of them - and all wars have been acts of agression by one small group of elites towards other small groups of elites with ordinary people brainwashed by flag waving and chest crossing indoctrination - dupped into supporting the wars of the elites with their minds and lives
while i have compassion for these people - they are now reaping what they sowed - the consequences of their actions
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» RE: WAR KILLS
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: WAR KILLS
Posted by: paschn
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 4, 2007 4:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Following B707 training, I began operating civilian contract flights as a first officer for the Military Airlift Command (MAC) to South Vietnam. For five years, I flew frightened teenaged GIs to Cam Rhan Bay, Bien Hoa, Da Nang and other in-country air bases. On return flights, my Proud Bird brought back old soldiers with young faces and a lifetime of nightmares ahead of them.
In 1970, I picked up a load of grunts at Da Nang going back to the “world” (USA) after finishing 12 months in country, with an interim stop at Okinawa for processing.
Wearing fatigues splattered with mud and blood, the Marines boarded my Boeing and sat down in comfortable one-class accommodations with plenty of leg space unlike nowadays.
Thirty seats were empty. Before engine start, the manifesting officer, a jerk Marine major, told me in an almost bragging manner the missing troops had been killed or wounded that morning at a hot landing zone before choppers could fly them out.
The same asshole then made an announcement over the PA system he thought was funny, saying the Continental jet with five friendly flight attendants onboard was a trick way off taking the grunts back to the LZ.
Nobody smiled, much less laughed.
Several days later, after another Da Nang turnaround and a layover on Okinawa, I left nonstop for California with the same group of Marines in back.
At first glance during boarding, they looked completely different: showered and shaved, fresh haircuts and new uniforms. Still, their faces were the same, unsmiling and suspicious, as though the MAC charter was indeed like the asshole major at Da Nang said―a sly method of flying them back to Nam.
Following takeoff when the meal service was complete, I strolled through the cabin to see how the combat vets were doing. Some were dozing, the rest awake and reading magazines. I couldn’t help noticing what kind. Almost all were comic books.
After my initial surprise, I theorized why the childish publications were so popular. It seemed to me the seasoned jungle killers were still teenagers inside, trying to regain what LBJ’s war had taken from them: the last year of their adolescence.
I see the same tragedy happening in Iraq. Like Vietnam, Gulf War 2 is being fought mainly by kids from low-income families. So-called “volunteers,” they joined the military to escape poverty, only to lose their lives and limbs while sons of rich Republicans sit smugly at home watching the action on Fox News―elitist little pricks sipping Classic Cokes and munching buttered popcorn as less fortunate citizens their age are getting killed and wounded in Iraq, the whole time wishing to hell they’d never volunteered in the first place.
Rep. Charley Rangel, a decorated Korean War vet, wants the draft reinstated. I do too, if nothing more than to build the character in young Americans our nation so desperately needs. But mention forced induction to Republicans and they throw up their hands in horror. God forbid their precious GOP offspring having to endure boot camp much less combat.
And why should they serve? With 34 million Americans living in poverty under Bush economic policies favoring the wealthiest citizens plus 45 million families without medical insurance, there is plenty of GI cannon fodder to go around.
NOTE: The above text is from my 2004 nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT . To read a synoposis and sample chapter, visit PhonyFighterPilot.com.
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» RE: Re-instate the Draft
Posted by: scott balogh
» You have it exactly right, Scott.
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: kbest on Jul 4, 2007 6:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All 5 enjoy their military service and 2 re-enlisted while over in Iraq. For every 3 soldiers like in this article, there are thousands who just don't fit the bill.
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» RE: These 3 subjects are a small minority
Posted by: mountainmama
» RE: These 3 subjects are a small minority
Posted by: Paxmana1
» RE: These 3 subjects are a small minority
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: These 3 subjects are a small minority
Posted by: willymack
» Thousands of Vietnam vets approved their war, too--back in the 60's. Ask them how they feel now.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Over 500 re-enlist............
Posted by: kbest
» RE: Over 500 re-enlist............
Posted by: theoldman
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Posted by: eosrk on Jul 4, 2007 7:52 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
and have not done so since August 1995, when I was kicked out. When the Iraq Conflict started up, then got out of hand, the Navy called me up to re-join, since I have vast experience in engineering(and still do, since I worked at a congeneration plant), and I simply told them;
Never
Again
Volunteer
Yourself
and gladly gave the recuriter the finger, and a "Fuck You", soundoff!!!
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Posted by: unity1 on Jul 4, 2007 9:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you as american soilders are the agresssors an invading race and the Iraqi people are resisting you - you in your turn kill anything that moves - over a million women children and men, mostly innocent of anything other than having their land invaded are dead more millions are refugess, you talk about your PTSD what about the hate of the children whove seen their entire familes wiped out what about their PTSD
you have to live with what you have done for the rest of your lives - and you have to live with the facts that you are responsible for so many needless deaths - you invaded their country illegaly - their improvished country - and you have the nerve to label them insurgents they are FREEDOM fighters, fighting to reclaim their country from the death embrace of your government - you are killling them and fighting for lies just like Vietnam - the same people were in power then as now - nothing changed not even the lies
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» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: jwg
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: lively56
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: militaryhater
» At least the kid isn't claiming to be a 1LT or CPT in Iraq anymore like he used to
Posted by: ateo
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: SatanicJamboree
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country...Hey son'y 'W.m .male'
Posted by: Captainmagic
» RE: you illegally invaded another peoples country
Posted by: josephq
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 9, 2007 12:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not just...
yet!
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Posted by: theoldman on Jul 9, 2007 1:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I enjoy professionalism of arms and knew and still know men of arms, us mercs and Professional Mercsand it is to the professioal I hold more respect than military.
At least Professioals I know and have met are honest in their appraisal of themselves and why they chose that vocation.
Of the 30+ I have met through the years they make war because that is their buisness and make no false claims of patriotism and expect no admiraiton except in their skill levels in whatevr field they excell in.
A military family, 4 served in Nam at same time, and history back to 1670s' and a lot of wars, today I have relatives I will not claim who play warrior in Iraq.
There is no reason for any man with an IQ above 60 to not know that the Iraq war is not a war for democracy, not in the Defense of America a war to make war, and that once your done or they no longer need you may get dumped as hundreds of thousands RVN and over 250,00 of Iraq I were .
Many volunteered for Nam; and while many of us were poor and were forcibly drafted most of us retained our humanity no matter what. Not all but the majority did.
Many did not, rape and pillage during search and destroy or collect finger bones or ears ; some exception as were those who enjoyed killing and the high of combat.
Even during the Mi Lai massacre not one black soldiert killed an innocent, it was all good ol white boys, and to this day the pilot and gunner on his slick that stopped it are truly the most heroic figures of that war in my mind.
I worked with todays vets who have played in Iraq, Somalia, Balkans and almost to a man they are truly decadent and know nothing of humanity, warriors in reality butchers. I met sniper teams who made bets, sometimes with officers, if they could hit a civilian even at long range, one a muslim cleric calling to services from a minaret at 700 meters of which they laughed, for a twenty, and then tell me of shooting an old unarmed man or boy to get an enemy to come out to rescue them.
Iraq is a slaughterhouse and in fact an very easy war carried out by not citizen soldier but some mixed up warrior mentality that has nothign to do with patriotism or defense of Constitution.
The private mercs didn't waste their time or place excess risk.
They were professioanls. they would kill you as well as look at you without a qualm if need be, but were just doing a well paying job.
Don't ask me to wave a flag, or worship the ground you tread upon, I and many men I am proud to of served with passed up trigger time chances because they knew the war was wrong and they fought and died like men against other men to just get home.
The majority of American people do not know the reality of your warfare and your living conditions. That you fight a poorly equipped civilain force who in the main is fighting for home and family, that Amerians have abused. that from 100 to 400 or more a day missions slay 300 mainly unarmed Iraquis daily.
A Turkey Shoot!
Indeed many men want to go back, young first termers and a few lifers, to being door kickers and some trigger time, because they are the easiest forces our military ever had a chance to kill.
War is hell but in this case we are bringing hell just to bring hell because we like it and to make a living.
I would like to blame propaganda and your military and civilain trainers but you are not stupid and all men have free will excpet when being tortured or humiliated by our forces.
Your employer owes whatever they said you get; all for that, a workman is worth whatever the wage agreed upon.
I will let others play with plastic ribbons and flags; I owe my honor to those names on a black wall.
At least the whores in Baghdad can make 30,000 a year in fees for an honest days work.
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Posted by: Temporary on Jul 9, 2007 3:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What about them?
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Posted by: hagwind on Jul 9, 2007 5:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started crying when I got to that. It's not that I haven't read and heard stories like these three, and not just about this war. When I was a young antiwar activist almost forty years ago, it was the stories of the returning servicemen that gave me reasons for opposing that war went beyond politics. Numb. You have to go numb to tolerate the intolerable. When the intolerable is unfixable, how else do you survive? The soldiers who manage to not see who they're killing and what they're destroying and what it's doing to their heads -- they're numb. We here at home, watching it on the TV or reading about it in the papers or online -- we get numb. Even if we're speaking and organizing against the war, we're numb most of the time, and it's a blessing too, because if we felt 24/7 the kind of experiences that these three people describe, we wouldn't be able to string five coherent words together or put one foot in front of the other. If we had to really feel the lives behind the statistics we read every day -- not just for a few moments but for hours at a time -- we'd go numb. Sometimes I go numb just trying to keep my own life on track; my life's pretty good, but I know that if I let too much reality in, I'd be babbling by the side of the road. Going numb looks like the only alternative.
"You come back, and it starts coming back to you slowly. Now you gotta figure out a way to deal with it. In Iraq you had a way to deal with it, because they kept pushing you back out there. Keep pushing you back out into the streets. Go, go, go. Hey, I just shot four people today. Yeah, and in about four hours you're going to go back out, and you'll probably shoot six more."
In war the intolerable and the unthinkable become normal. What you have to do to survive to the end of the tour, the end of the day -- the next few minutes. "Normal" is like an anesthetic. It numbs you. If everyone else is doing it, it's OK. Coming "home" is like an alcoholic or an addict quitting cold turkey -- you give up the anesthetic and you're face-to-face with all the experiences and terrors it was shielding you from.
I can't stop crying. (Don't worry, I'll get over it; I have to get back to work.) What just hit me is that most of us in the U.S. of A. don't have to come back, or get sober. We can go about our lives in the belly of this beast that's snuffing out lives and dreams and consciences all over the world (including here in the big belly) and never admit that what we call "normal" is intolerable and unsustainable. We have the luxury of staying numb.
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Posted by: kc10ken on Jul 9, 2007 5:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I did 3 tours in the middle east before refusing to reenlist because of Bush's QUAGMIRE in Iraq. This was after 13 years of honorable service to my country.
It's far past time to bring us home....no good can come out of this situation....for both us and the Iraqis.
I'm not an expert on middle eastern history and culture, however, it didn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that Iraq would turn into a huge clusterfuck. I tried to tell my fellow service members this back in the fall of 2002. They all laughed at me and labelled me "traitor"...."pussy" and the likes.
They're not laughing now.
I buried three of them last year and now not a single friend of mine from my former unit thinks this war in Iraq is justified, sane or winnable. You civilians must know something about our military....most guys want out of Iraq and think it's a waste but CANNOT speak publicly. You think politics are bad in the civilian world? You have NO IDEA how bad they are in the military.
What really amazes me is how misinformed Americans really are about our situation in Iraq.
SHAMEFUL
GET US OUT NOW! BRING US HOME!
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» RE: Why did 500 re-enlist on the 4th...in Baghdad?
Posted by: kbest
» RE: Why did 500 re-enlist on the 4th...in Baghdad?
Posted by: militaryhater
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Jul 9, 2007 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A substantial group of us ended up in jail or nut houses for doing our patriotic duty. We served with distinction and courage. The nation did not keep the promise.
Within one year of leaving active duty, you should go get counciling with the VA or PRIVATE MEDICAL doctors for what ever ails you. If you spend five or ten sessions with a private pysch you got a claim in the future for PTSD or Depression or what ever. Even sentence reduction will be helped.
Six months after I got home I got the "shakes." It happened suddenly, without warning. It frightened me so, that I got private professional help cause I was still flying in the Army Reserve.
But, in a few years, when I thought all was well again, my life fell apart again. This time I traveled the country robbing banks and gun stores.
Indeed, I have become an advocate of criminal behavior to solve ones "personal" problems. We committed crimes in our wars for the country, but we got nothing for it but bad health. Therefore, it is time to commit crimes for yourselves. War and criminal action is about the same thing for planning and execution. The difference being that you do it for yourself and not the "country."
Just remember, the people of this fair land and its government does not give a "rats ass" about you or your "problems." It is all on you, and "thanks for your service" is all you will likely hear.
Shove a gun up their asses and take what was promissed. You got nothing to loose.
Signed,
A Vietnam Vet who learned the hard way.
PS. I am living on a total disability pension. I got it after being imprisoned for my crimes. I got it the hard way, which is the way most will have to get it. Good luck, brothers.
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 9, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well said, willymack!
Posted by: HughScott
» "those people"
Posted by: ateo
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Posted by: HughScott on Jul 9, 2007 4:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Time and again, Dub-ya has shown himself to be an immoral and corrupt politician who was never qualifed to occupy the Oval Office. His recent quid-pro-quo obstruction of justice by voiding Scooter Libbey's prison sentence is just the latest of a long list of transgressions, distortions and outright lies, as follows:
Bush’s falsified White House biography.
So-called Iraqi WMDs.
"Immediate" threats.
Yellow-cake uranium.
Aluminum tubes.
Mobile biological weapons labs.
Ties to Al Qaeda.
A 9/11 connection.
The Valerie Plame/CIA leak case.
Scooter Libby’s conviction for perjury and obstruction of justice.
Secret overseas prisons.
Torture.
Warrantless wiretaps of United States citizens.
Phony Al Qaeda plots.
False claims that America is safer now from terrorism than before 9/11.
Failing to safeguard our border with Mexico.
Seeking amnesty for illegal immigrants in return for votes and cheap labor.
Concealing the real cost of Gulf War 2.
Destroying the combat effectiveness of National Guard and Ready Reserve troops.
Sending them into Iraq with obsolete body armor and unprotected Humvees.
Understating Iraqi civilian casualties.
Embellishing U.S. successes in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Misrepresenting the only wartime tax cut in American history.
Economically betraying senior citizens, the middle class and working poor.
Downplaying global warming.
Bush going on vacation during Hurricane Katrina while fellow Americans drowned in New Orleans.
Vetoing stem cell research for religous reasons.
Claiming wounded GIs got the best treatment possible at Walter Reed.
Preventing the coffins of returning GIs from being seen by the public.
Hiding injured Iraq veterans from the press after landing stateside.
Declassifying intelligence information for political purposes.
Firing U.S. attorneys for the same reason.
Obstructing justice by destroying White House emails, allowing AG Gonzales to lie before Congress, claiming Cheney isn’t part of the executive branch and refusing to let former White Houses staff members such as Harriet Miers testify before Congress.
The first item on my list was reported by the Boston Globe on February 28, 2004.
Headlined, ”Bush Bio on Web Inflates Guard Service,” the Globe story told how I scooped thousands of Web-surfing journalists by finding a fabricated presidential biography someone in the White House had inadvertently posted on a State Department website.
For AlterNet visitors unfamiliar with George W.’s fabricated Guard history, it claimed he flew F102s almost SIX years when the actual time was 27 months. The text contained other misrepresentations as well -- all intentional, not typos or mistaken dictation.
For example, the bogus bio asserted that Bush spent four years helping to keep two F102s on strip alert. In truth, he was only qualified for alert duty 22 months and the last 60 days were plagued by pilot problems attributed to poor airmanship, excessive drinking and a rumored fear of flying.
You can learn more about the “Bogus Bush Bio Caper” by visiting my nonprofit investigative website, King-George.biz, which features 60 cartoons, photos and other Bushwhacking illustrations.
Hugh E. Scott, Vietnam vet, ex-USAF pilot, lifelong registered Republican, John Kerry supporter in 2004 and author of the narrative nonfiction book, George Dub-ya Bush, THE PHONY FIGHTER PILOT.
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» RE: The TRUTH about Bush 43 worth repeating.
Posted by: Trazom
» Trazom, being a former USAF pilot who got his commission the old fashioned way, by working for it...
Posted by: HughScott
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Posted by: ateo on Jul 9, 2007 6:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first guy said he got 10 days to get off the base? Yea, that's about right. That's how the military deals with anyone they don't think is worth keeping around or is all used up. 10 days is their bench mark for you to be done and gone and nothing but a name and social security number in the VA's database somewhere.
You give them years, sweat, blood, tears - they give you 10 days to get the fuck out.
Then you're on your own, good luck have fun. They teach you how to write a resume that a 10th grader should be able to top and you have no real skills because 95% of everything in the military does not apply to the civilian world.
The best you can hope for is a government job or some job given to you out of pity from one of these companies that likes to claim they are "veteran friendly."
link
Anyway, it's just a bad deal from start to finish. Yet this is nothing new, but it's something they don't teach you in school and they don't show on TV. Kids these days only know what they learn in school or see on TV or in a video game. They graduate and buy into all the news media/military propaganda and think joining the military is a great deal and a path to a better life. For some it is, but for many it doesn't quite work out that way.
Why do we keep letting this shit happen? It makes everyone who ever knew a kid that ended up the military responsible for not warning them.
Risk your health for a country that won't do shit for you if you come back broken? 10 days to get the fuck out the door and never come back? Yea, no thanks.
All I ever wanted was out of the military without ending up in a box or in chains. I managed that and anything after that is just gravy. I'm alive, I'm not in prison.
How can the American people let themselves be fucking fooled every couple of decades by the power whores in Washington? You would think we'd learn something about the nature of warfare, how it happens, what it does to participants etc. after the MIC fucks us over a couple of times - apparently not. People don't study history and they can't tell you what happened before the OJ trial broke on MSNBC (if that) so we are doomed to be manipulated by the ones calling the shots.
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Posted by: Trazom on Jul 9, 2007 7:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. War is wrong
2. War is immoral
3. War deprives children of their parents
4. War ultimately kills many more than just those casualties on the battlefield
You would think that in the year 2007, we would have learned these lessons. Apparently not.
If just 1/3 of the American population knew the true horrors of war we would not engage in this futile endeavor anymore. Like I've said before, unless you're prepared to shoot your mother, your grandmother, your daugher, even your infant in the face, then don't sign up for the military. You are essentially doing the same thing - it's just someone else's loved one.
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